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Featured Guest:
Dr. Marc Wharton PhD Programs Coordinator and PhD Candidate, Florida Atlantic University Published September 17, 2025 In this episode of Wisdom for Wannabes, host Jackie Morreale interviews Marc Wharton, the PhD Programs Coordinator at Florida Atlantic University. They discuss Marc's academic journey, his research on digital natives, and his extensive experience in the fashion industry. Marc shares insights on leadership, consumer behavior, and the importance of understanding one's customer in branding. He also offers valuable advice for aspiring PhD students and reflects on the lessons learned from influential leaders throughout his career. Listen to/watch the full podcast recording, or read the transcript below: |
Full Interview with Marc Wharton:
"All you can do is be wrong. Get over that piece. Make the decision."
- Marc Wharton (Wisdom for Wannabes episode 21, 41:00)
Great quotes from the interview with Marc Wharton:
(More great quotes throughout the transcript in blue below.)
- "Service is joy."
- "Always take the meeting."
- "All you can do is be wrong."
(More great quotes throughout the transcript in blue below.)
Marc Wharton
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Key Takeaways:
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Interview Transcript:
Jackie Morreale (00:00): Hello and welcome to Wisdom for Wannabes, a new podcast series that seeks to find wise words in business, beauty and betterment. My name is Jackie Morreale and today I am joined by a very special guest, Marc Wharton. Welcome to the show! I’m glad to have you here with us.
Marc Wharton is the PhD Programs Coordinator for the College of Business at FAU, Florida Atlantic University, and is also a PhD candidate in higher education leadership himself. As the administrator of the doctoral programs, Marc is responsible for overseeing the academic services for both the college's traditional and executive PhD students. In this role, Marc shares responsibility for recruitment, enrollment management, advising, and retention of the program's cohorts.
Marc's research interest is in the impact of digital native status on teaching and learning, that is to understand whether the immediacy and comprehensiveness of information, given digital technology, alters the opportunity for acquiring knowledge in such a way as to present a paradigmic inflection point in higher education learning preferences. If so, what are the implications on pedagogical practices and curricular pathways? And if so, what are the implications for web-based instructional technologies in improving learning outcomes in higher education? If not, are current structures, pedagogical methods, and curriculum the most engaging and effective for iGeneration or the digital native students?
So interesting. I can't wait to read your dissertation and find out more about your research. Marc received his M. Ed. in higher education leadership from Florida Atlantic University and his BS in marketing management from Cornell University. (Fellow Cornellian, yay!) Prior to Marc's 12 years in higher education, he was the owner principal for a small business consulting firm based in South Florida, Wharton Brand Management, advising companies on marketing and business development strategies. Marc's expertise in marketing management was developed while based in New York City, leading to sales and marketing for divisions of Tommy Hilfiger, Reebok and Phillips Van Heusen.
So good to have you here, Marc. Your background is incredible. You check all the boxes in business, you have this vast wealth of knowledge in business and the fashion industry, in research, in education. I'm so happy to learn from you. As soon as we met, a year ago, I knew that we had this connection and I'm happy that you've come into my life.
Marc Wharton (02:39): Absolutely. I echo everything you said. It's such a pleasure to be here. I've enjoyed your podcast. I had the same exact moment when we met that, this is someone that is going to be special as a friend and member of the program.
Jackie Morreale (02:54): Absolutely. Well, I literally have to put my FIU hat on after that one because I am very proud to be part of the fam. Very proud. of the awesome perks of being a newbie to the program. You get some cool swag.
Marc Wharton (02:58): Very cool.
Jackie Morreale (03:17): Without further ado, let's get into the interview questions. Please start us off with your full name, where you're from, and your current hometown.
Marc Wharton (03:26): My full name is Marc Wharton, born in Chicago, Illinois. Then almost immediately my family moved to West Africa and we spent four years in Ghana, where my father was conducting an animal nutrition research project. While we were there, we had a chance to travel all around the world from there as a jumping off point. We spent time in London and Berlin and Amsterdam. That started this bug of travel because I was traveling to countries as a very young kid. Then I spent time growing up in Chicago, St. Louis, and New York, where we ultimately settled. I currently live in Palm Beach County in South Florida.
Jackie Morreale (04:04): We're both turning in from Palm Beach County in South Florida. You've been all around the world. I had no idea that you grew up in Ghana and had this family business with animals, that's amazing.
What do you do now, in a few words, and what is your passion?
Marc Wharton (04:12): I have that really, really blessed opportunity where my profession is my calling and therefore my passion. I work with both senior executives in our executive PhD program in terms of recruitment, admissions, advising, retention, managing the program along with my colleagues. But then I also work with full-time traditional PhD students who have that full-time goal of being researchers professionally. So they explore research at a level that our executive students don't really have time for. I work with them in the same capacity among a team of colleagues here in the College of Business.
Jackie Morreale (05:02): It's such a great team of colleagues too. You really have the best of both worlds with the traditional and the executive PhD students and yet this powerhouse team that backs everybody up and keeps it going and the cohorts flowing and the research pumping. I'm so happy to be part of the group, really. Very excited to start.
Marc Wharton (05:21): Yes, I pinch myself. This is the best working environment I have ever experienced. As you can tell from my bio, it's a long career. But this is absolutely the best environment I've ever worked in.
Jackie Morreale (05:29): It's true. How many years have you been in this particular role as the PhD programs coordinator at FAU?
Marc Wharton (05:40): This is just completing my fifth year. In January, I will begin my sixth year.
Jackie Morreale (05:45): What is your favorite part of your role?
Marc Wharton (05:47): By far, it's the students. On the executive PhD side, you've heard me say this, it's a unique population by definition of overachievers. No one is managing business at some level or an organization at some senior level, typically having family and raising kids and just randomly or arbitrarily says, you know what, I think I'll get a doctoral degree in my spare time. It really takes overachievers to add this sort of program to their plate. There are fascinating people with fascinating careers and their personalities, equally fascinating because of the intellectual curiosity that would drive them to get a PhD while being in senior roles.
Jackie Morreale (06:28): Well, I can say the same about you, that while you're in this calling of a role that you're currently enjoying, you're also pursuing your own PhD and putting together your own dissertation and defense. I'm sure that postdoc research will continue to call you in. I'm so excited to hear more about your double-edged sword of professionalism and also academia and how you balance it all.
But before we go into the deep stuff, let's start with some quickfire questions to learn more about Marc. What is your favorite food?
Marc Wharton (06:59): I'd say bang bang shrimp tacos. I've had those three-star Michelin restaurant meals, the very fancy French dinners, all of that stuff. And those are awesome meals. But in terms of a constant, it would be some form of fish tacos.
Jackie Morreale (07:02): There are a couple of really good places around here too in Boca and Atlantic Avenue in Delray. Yeah, that's true.
We've talked about this one at length and I know this is going to be hard just to pick one, but what is your favorite book of the moment?
Marc Wharton (07:22): There are. Actually, my favorite book all time is a book called Middlemarch written by George Eliot. It’s a five-volume book. It takes a year to read, but absolutely the greatest pleasure reading.
Jackie Morreale (07:46): I have to add it to my list. I appreciate the heads up on the year investment of time, but that means it's worth it.
Who is your favorite singer or what is your favorite band or type of music?
Marc Wharton (07:53): You won't put it down if you start it. You really won't.
Currently, my favorite singer is Olivia Dean. She's a British neo soul singer blowing up. If you haven't heard of her yet, you will. She's really growing in popularity. Favorite genre of music is either neo soul or house music.
But favorite band on a completely different spectrum would be Foo Fighters. I've been a fan since the beginning.
Jackie Morreale (08:25): The band is amazing with roots in Nirvana, Dave Grohl, and their drummer's amazing. It's just the whole vibe.
Marc Wharton (08:27): Yes, Taylor. He's passed away, but it was Taylor all these years.
Jackie Morreale (08:37): I wasn't expecting that and I'll look out for Olivia Dean.
What was your favorite subject in school?
Marc Wharton (08:43): In school, it was math. Since school it's history. I was not a fan of history when I was in high school, in undergrad, cetera. I thought it had very little relevance to today. But now I am an absolute history buff.
Jackie Morreale (08:55): It's funny, a couple of recent conversations, I would have thought that you were more a futurist, because I know that you have your finger on the pulse of technology, my friend. I know that you know what's going on and what's to come. That's so interesting that you're a history buff.
Marc Wharton (09:10): Interesting. I didn't make that connection, but you are right. I do love and do consider myself a futurist. Somehow that's grounded in history in some way. There you go.
Jackie Morreale (09:19): What goes around comes around, right? It's all patterns, it's all cycles.
What is your favorite activity?
Marc Wharton (09:25): I am an absolute addict when it comes to golf. I try to get out every weekend. It's the most enjoyable activity I've ever experienced.
Jackie Morreale (09:33): We live in the right place for that. You get to play all year and so many options. What is your favorite place?
Marc Wharton (09:35): Yes, we do.
My favorite city would be London, and my favorite getaway would be Ibiza in Spain.
Jackie Morreale (09:48): Amazing. Now I understand the house music reference.
Marc Wharton (09:51): Yes, it's a house music island.
Jackie Morreale (09:55): Yes, exactly. I was half expecting you to say the library, but that's really cool. I've been to London before very briefly. I agree, it's such a beautiful city with so much charm and history to it. And Ibiza, I still need to find a babysitter and go visit one of these days.
Anyway, we sort of talked about sports. Do you have a favorite sport other than golf, or golf is your thing?
Marc Wharton (10:19): I watch golf on television, both men's and women's, but probably to watch, my favorite sport would be the NFL.
(Continued below)
Marc Wharton is the PhD Programs Coordinator for the College of Business at FAU, Florida Atlantic University, and is also a PhD candidate in higher education leadership himself. As the administrator of the doctoral programs, Marc is responsible for overseeing the academic services for both the college's traditional and executive PhD students. In this role, Marc shares responsibility for recruitment, enrollment management, advising, and retention of the program's cohorts.
Marc's research interest is in the impact of digital native status on teaching and learning, that is to understand whether the immediacy and comprehensiveness of information, given digital technology, alters the opportunity for acquiring knowledge in such a way as to present a paradigmic inflection point in higher education learning preferences. If so, what are the implications on pedagogical practices and curricular pathways? And if so, what are the implications for web-based instructional technologies in improving learning outcomes in higher education? If not, are current structures, pedagogical methods, and curriculum the most engaging and effective for iGeneration or the digital native students?
So interesting. I can't wait to read your dissertation and find out more about your research. Marc received his M. Ed. in higher education leadership from Florida Atlantic University and his BS in marketing management from Cornell University. (Fellow Cornellian, yay!) Prior to Marc's 12 years in higher education, he was the owner principal for a small business consulting firm based in South Florida, Wharton Brand Management, advising companies on marketing and business development strategies. Marc's expertise in marketing management was developed while based in New York City, leading to sales and marketing for divisions of Tommy Hilfiger, Reebok and Phillips Van Heusen.
So good to have you here, Marc. Your background is incredible. You check all the boxes in business, you have this vast wealth of knowledge in business and the fashion industry, in research, in education. I'm so happy to learn from you. As soon as we met, a year ago, I knew that we had this connection and I'm happy that you've come into my life.
Marc Wharton (02:39): Absolutely. I echo everything you said. It's such a pleasure to be here. I've enjoyed your podcast. I had the same exact moment when we met that, this is someone that is going to be special as a friend and member of the program.
Jackie Morreale (02:54): Absolutely. Well, I literally have to put my FIU hat on after that one because I am very proud to be part of the fam. Very proud. of the awesome perks of being a newbie to the program. You get some cool swag.
Marc Wharton (02:58): Very cool.
Jackie Morreale (03:17): Without further ado, let's get into the interview questions. Please start us off with your full name, where you're from, and your current hometown.
Marc Wharton (03:26): My full name is Marc Wharton, born in Chicago, Illinois. Then almost immediately my family moved to West Africa and we spent four years in Ghana, where my father was conducting an animal nutrition research project. While we were there, we had a chance to travel all around the world from there as a jumping off point. We spent time in London and Berlin and Amsterdam. That started this bug of travel because I was traveling to countries as a very young kid. Then I spent time growing up in Chicago, St. Louis, and New York, where we ultimately settled. I currently live in Palm Beach County in South Florida.
Jackie Morreale (04:04): We're both turning in from Palm Beach County in South Florida. You've been all around the world. I had no idea that you grew up in Ghana and had this family business with animals, that's amazing.
What do you do now, in a few words, and what is your passion?
Marc Wharton (04:12): I have that really, really blessed opportunity where my profession is my calling and therefore my passion. I work with both senior executives in our executive PhD program in terms of recruitment, admissions, advising, retention, managing the program along with my colleagues. But then I also work with full-time traditional PhD students who have that full-time goal of being researchers professionally. So they explore research at a level that our executive students don't really have time for. I work with them in the same capacity among a team of colleagues here in the College of Business.
Jackie Morreale (05:02): It's such a great team of colleagues too. You really have the best of both worlds with the traditional and the executive PhD students and yet this powerhouse team that backs everybody up and keeps it going and the cohorts flowing and the research pumping. I'm so happy to be part of the group, really. Very excited to start.
Marc Wharton (05:21): Yes, I pinch myself. This is the best working environment I have ever experienced. As you can tell from my bio, it's a long career. But this is absolutely the best environment I've ever worked in.
Jackie Morreale (05:29): It's true. How many years have you been in this particular role as the PhD programs coordinator at FAU?
Marc Wharton (05:40): This is just completing my fifth year. In January, I will begin my sixth year.
Jackie Morreale (05:45): What is your favorite part of your role?
Marc Wharton (05:47): By far, it's the students. On the executive PhD side, you've heard me say this, it's a unique population by definition of overachievers. No one is managing business at some level or an organization at some senior level, typically having family and raising kids and just randomly or arbitrarily says, you know what, I think I'll get a doctoral degree in my spare time. It really takes overachievers to add this sort of program to their plate. There are fascinating people with fascinating careers and their personalities, equally fascinating because of the intellectual curiosity that would drive them to get a PhD while being in senior roles.
Jackie Morreale (06:28): Well, I can say the same about you, that while you're in this calling of a role that you're currently enjoying, you're also pursuing your own PhD and putting together your own dissertation and defense. I'm sure that postdoc research will continue to call you in. I'm so excited to hear more about your double-edged sword of professionalism and also academia and how you balance it all.
But before we go into the deep stuff, let's start with some quickfire questions to learn more about Marc. What is your favorite food?
Marc Wharton (06:59): I'd say bang bang shrimp tacos. I've had those three-star Michelin restaurant meals, the very fancy French dinners, all of that stuff. And those are awesome meals. But in terms of a constant, it would be some form of fish tacos.
Jackie Morreale (07:02): There are a couple of really good places around here too in Boca and Atlantic Avenue in Delray. Yeah, that's true.
We've talked about this one at length and I know this is going to be hard just to pick one, but what is your favorite book of the moment?
Marc Wharton (07:22): There are. Actually, my favorite book all time is a book called Middlemarch written by George Eliot. It’s a five-volume book. It takes a year to read, but absolutely the greatest pleasure reading.
Jackie Morreale (07:46): I have to add it to my list. I appreciate the heads up on the year investment of time, but that means it's worth it.
Who is your favorite singer or what is your favorite band or type of music?
Marc Wharton (07:53): You won't put it down if you start it. You really won't.
Currently, my favorite singer is Olivia Dean. She's a British neo soul singer blowing up. If you haven't heard of her yet, you will. She's really growing in popularity. Favorite genre of music is either neo soul or house music.
But favorite band on a completely different spectrum would be Foo Fighters. I've been a fan since the beginning.
Jackie Morreale (08:25): The band is amazing with roots in Nirvana, Dave Grohl, and their drummer's amazing. It's just the whole vibe.
Marc Wharton (08:27): Yes, Taylor. He's passed away, but it was Taylor all these years.
Jackie Morreale (08:37): I wasn't expecting that and I'll look out for Olivia Dean.
What was your favorite subject in school?
Marc Wharton (08:43): In school, it was math. Since school it's history. I was not a fan of history when I was in high school, in undergrad, cetera. I thought it had very little relevance to today. But now I am an absolute history buff.
Jackie Morreale (08:55): It's funny, a couple of recent conversations, I would have thought that you were more a futurist, because I know that you have your finger on the pulse of technology, my friend. I know that you know what's going on and what's to come. That's so interesting that you're a history buff.
Marc Wharton (09:10): Interesting. I didn't make that connection, but you are right. I do love and do consider myself a futurist. Somehow that's grounded in history in some way. There you go.
Jackie Morreale (09:19): What goes around comes around, right? It's all patterns, it's all cycles.
What is your favorite activity?
Marc Wharton (09:25): I am an absolute addict when it comes to golf. I try to get out every weekend. It's the most enjoyable activity I've ever experienced.
Jackie Morreale (09:33): We live in the right place for that. You get to play all year and so many options. What is your favorite place?
Marc Wharton (09:35): Yes, we do.
My favorite city would be London, and my favorite getaway would be Ibiza in Spain.
Jackie Morreale (09:48): Amazing. Now I understand the house music reference.
Marc Wharton (09:51): Yes, it's a house music island.
Jackie Morreale (09:55): Yes, exactly. I was half expecting you to say the library, but that's really cool. I've been to London before very briefly. I agree, it's such a beautiful city with so much charm and history to it. And Ibiza, I still need to find a babysitter and go visit one of these days.
Anyway, we sort of talked about sports. Do you have a favorite sport other than golf, or golf is your thing?
Marc Wharton (10:19): I watch golf on television, both men's and women's, but probably to watch, my favorite sport would be the NFL.
(Continued below)
Recommended Musicians, by Marc Wharton:
Olivia Dean, Singer
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Foo Fighters, band
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(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (10:25): Go Owls, too, right? We have a pretty decent team. Speaking of Owls, what is your favorite university if you had to pick?
Marc Wharton (10:27): Go Owls, yes. I know that my fellow owls will want to shoot me. But there was no experience educationally in my life that compares to Cornell University. Cornell is a magic experience, as you know. Situated in the Finger Lakes and absolute beauty of it. I can remember Graduation Day, and we were in the stadium. I'm looking out over the hills and I'm thinking to myself the whole rest of my life is downhill from here. Really, literally having done this, nothing can stop me. It's so challenging.
Jackie Morreale (11:02): It's literally downhill from here.
Marc Wharton (11:10): Cornell has uniquely an academic value system of pressure makes diamonds. Rather than bringing in these most filtered elite students and then coddling and nurturing, which is kind of Harvard's method, they do all the filtering on the front end and bring in a small group of highly, highly, highly regarded students and then nurture and educate them, and create success stories. Cornell brings in a much larger population of students, and it's sink or swim from the first semester.
Jackie Morreale (11:40): I completely agree. It's so funny you said that. And this is just my own personal recollection. I just told my own daughter, who still has time before college, but I said, Harvard, the hardest part's getting in. Cornell, the hardest part's getting out. It's a lot of work from day one. From day one, all-nighters are a thing. It's competitive. It's just the sheer amount of work to be able to survive and learn, it really prepares you for anything else on earth and makes it pale in comparison.
Marc Wharton (12:14): There is a word that you'll be familiar with that almost still gives me shivers and it's the word "prelim". Which in talking to students from all other campuses, it's not a word that exists in higher ed. It's uniquely a Cornell term for exam. You'd see students that were looking freaked out and you'd say, hey, how you doing? It's like, I got a prelim tonight. I got a prelim tomorrow.
Jackie Morreale (12:21): Prelims. Yes, it's unique. It doesn't matter how many years you are out, the word prelim… it gives me a little bit of anxiety right now.
I made so many great friends, so many great relationships, and I really think that walking uphill in the snow both directions to school gives you a certain sense of grit and that sticks with you.
Marc Wharton (12:52): Yes! It's so interesting because the physical environment, the weather pattern, then the rigor of the classrooms and the large, "weed out" courses you take as freshmen. All of that combines, right? I joined the fraternity and one of the things they did was make us run up Buffalo. In the wintertime with combat boots running up and down Buffalo, not that that's everybody's experience, but walking up Buffalo is everybody's experience. It's a challenging environment and not for every student.
I'm a Cornell alumni admissions ambassador and I meet with prospective students and I give them a sense of, you might be better off in a nurturing environment or you might be competitive and really thrive with the challenge of Cornell, but not both. Be forewarned, it's not for the faint of heart.
Jackie Morreale (13:48): Agree. It's for the really curious, the really motivated, the hardworking group. Although I would say, because I was in one of the smaller colleges for both undergraduate and graduate, it was huge, but it felt small in that way. I did love that there were colleges within the university. I did feel as if I had that small core group that was doing it with me and had my back and all that. It's weird in that way that you're able to find your niche and carve out your core group.
Marc Wharton (14:17): Same thing socially. You're able to find your niche socially because it's such a diverse group of students because of all the different colleges and all the different majors and interests, but also all the different backgrounds and all of that. Everybody can find their niche there. That is another aspect.
Jackie Morreale (14:31): And so many motivated, now 20 years later, so many professionals, as a result are in my friend group and it's just been an amazing thing.
Marc Wharton (14:40): Tidbit about Cornell that we haven't shared is I do a lecture here on the history of Cornell as a land-grant university. So, in our College of Education in the History and Philosophy of Higher Ed course, I'm a guest lecturer and I lecture on the land-grant universities and their impact on the US and our society, using Cornell as the exemplar of the impact. So sometime when you and I have a chance, I'll tell you some information about Cornell I can almost guarantee you don't know, that is really fabulous about the two founders.
Jackie Morreale (15:06): Yes. Ezra Cornell and E.B. White. I would love to take your course and listen to you speak on it. I would love to learn anything there is to know that comes out of your brain, Marc, honestly.
Speaking of, someone really smart once told me that you have to be your most authentic self in every area of your life. Happened to be someone who might be on this call. I really appreciated that wisdom and I'm just wondering, do you have an inspirational quote that you would want to share for life?
Marc Wharton (15:45): This is the one, it's in my email. It's in my signature. The quote is from Tagore, an Indian philosopher, poet, musical composer. He was not literally a Renaissance man, meaning he wasn't born during the Renaissance, but that description applies to him almost like no other. He says:
"I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy."
I just love it. It's really defining for me. I mentioned earlier that, I feel blessed that my profession is my calling. It's because my profession is grounded in service. Nothing, I believe, can bring more joy than a life of purpose servicing others. So yes, that's sort of a defining quote.
Jackie Morreale (16:33): Well now I'm going to read that quote differently. I have read it from you over and over and over again.
I agree, service is joy. There's something about giving to others that is really a gift to yourself. In terms of pursuing your calling and your purpose, I think that is also a huge component of joy and being able to fulfill your purpose and know what it is. That was a hard thing for me to figure out myself. I still trying to figure it out.
Let's talk about some of the work that you did before what you're currently doing and you're currently fulfilling this amazing purpose and giving back in such a big way. On fashion. How did you get started in the fashion world?
Marc Wharton (16:54): My first start was in high school as a part-time job. I worked at a department store. This was in St. Louis and it was a local department store. My job was pushing around one of those big open buggies and collecting the sends from each department, taking it to the loading dock and having it packaged and shipped out. If a customer came in and wanted to ship or send something they purchased back home or to someone else, they would sit at a certain place at the register and I would come by and collect all the sends throughout the building and then get them out.
Now simultaneous to why that is, is my mother was an absolute icon of fashion. She made her own clothes, she designed her own clothes. Although I was very much the typical guy in terms of playing sports and hanging out, one of my favorite activities was to go clothes shopping with my mother. So her taste rubbed off on me. I had a real love of fashion.
Then flash forward to Cornell, my senior year, interviewing. In the Career Center, there was a board that showed the upcoming companies and the dates they would be there. There was Bloomingdale's. I remember thinking, Bloomingdale's? How could you use a college degree for a department store? I'm thinking all you do is sales help, and store managers, or something like that. But I interviewed, and interesting enough, the person that recruited me, he worked in HR at Bloomingdale's, but he graduated from the AG EC program at Cornell himself maybe four years earlier. He was saying to me how, I know for a fact that the degree you earned is going to be a great foundation for success because it's the same degree I have. Then he explained to me what a fashion buyer was.
The minute he explained that that role was the person that chose the products to go into the stores, sold. I interviewed at Bloomingdale's, got the job. That was my start.
Jackie Morreale (19:07): You were a buyer as your out of college job? Wow.
Marc Wharton (19:12): Yes. My first actual buying assignment was men's dress shirts.
Jackie Morreale (19:19): I'm looking at the details of your cuff and the fit of the collar and everything just perfectly fit and completely makes sense to me. That's so interesting.
As a past Wholesaler. That coveted buyer… That job that really has such power in the industry. Yes, a taste making buyer. Someone who's pulled in a million different directions. Everyone's trying to get your ear.
Marc Wharton (19:35): And Bloomingdale's buyer in particular. A very interesting story about Bloomingdale's when I was there. Marvin Traub was the CEO and he's kind of an icon in the business. One of his mantras was, whether it was one day a week or one day a month, there was a day that all the unsolicited sellers would be invited in. His mantra was: Always take the meeting.
It doesn't matter if you've never heard of the person, never heard of the brand, at least take the meeting, you never know what you might discover. So, I kind of learned that early.
Jackie Morreale (20:12): I love that. As a newbie, as an entrepreneur, wow, people like that with that kind of vision are such a gift. Wish I would have known that 20 years ago. An amazing start.
So, Cornell launched you into this career at Bloomingdale's. You're in buying, I know you also went to branding, marketing. What was the best part about working in the fashion industry in New York City?
Marc Wharton (20:38): I would say my time at Tommy Hilfiger was the highlight of my career. I happened to be at Tommy Hilfiger when it was the hottest brand in America. If you think about the peak life of a brand, I got there on the arc right before the peak. So, I helped explode it, but it was already heading there.
Jackie Morreale (20:56): Not a coincidence at all, my friend. I'm sure that you were a very, very major component of that brand's success. I'm excited for you.
Marc Wharton (21:06): Would be very difficult for me to admit to that with the size of that company and all the people that work there. I was there during a very exciting time.
The opportunity to manage the Northeast territory of that brand. I had Saks Fifth Avenue, Bloomingdale's. Back then, there was a store out of Boston named Filene's. A store out of Washington named Heck Company. But equally or more importantly, I had all of the New York City metro area independent stores.
I had come from, prior to Tommy, the streetwear market in LA. I was connected to all the streetwear local stores in New York selling iconic brand Cross Colors. It's literally the first hip hop clothing brand that ever existed and I was with them at their launch. So, they hired me knowing that Tommy was becoming very popular with the kids, particularly the hip hop market. I had a connection to that market and so I was able to really nurture the growth of that on the retail side.
Also at the same time, I had worked for Bloomingdale's. So, I also had the ability to work with the department stores. So it was just great karma that I had this dual background, and they had a dual business and I had experience in both ends.
Jackie Morreale (22:23): To think that your retail all started in St. Louis, pushing around the cart, with the sends. That's so great.
You have the big department store experience. You had the boutique experience. You had your finger on the pulse of everything that was going on in streetwear. You brought all those different components to this role at Tommy, which sounds like a very low pressure job, by the way.
(Continued below)
Jackie Morreale (10:25): Go Owls, too, right? We have a pretty decent team. Speaking of Owls, what is your favorite university if you had to pick?
Marc Wharton (10:27): Go Owls, yes. I know that my fellow owls will want to shoot me. But there was no experience educationally in my life that compares to Cornell University. Cornell is a magic experience, as you know. Situated in the Finger Lakes and absolute beauty of it. I can remember Graduation Day, and we were in the stadium. I'm looking out over the hills and I'm thinking to myself the whole rest of my life is downhill from here. Really, literally having done this, nothing can stop me. It's so challenging.
Jackie Morreale (11:02): It's literally downhill from here.
Marc Wharton (11:10): Cornell has uniquely an academic value system of pressure makes diamonds. Rather than bringing in these most filtered elite students and then coddling and nurturing, which is kind of Harvard's method, they do all the filtering on the front end and bring in a small group of highly, highly, highly regarded students and then nurture and educate them, and create success stories. Cornell brings in a much larger population of students, and it's sink or swim from the first semester.
Jackie Morreale (11:40): I completely agree. It's so funny you said that. And this is just my own personal recollection. I just told my own daughter, who still has time before college, but I said, Harvard, the hardest part's getting in. Cornell, the hardest part's getting out. It's a lot of work from day one. From day one, all-nighters are a thing. It's competitive. It's just the sheer amount of work to be able to survive and learn, it really prepares you for anything else on earth and makes it pale in comparison.
Marc Wharton (12:14): There is a word that you'll be familiar with that almost still gives me shivers and it's the word "prelim". Which in talking to students from all other campuses, it's not a word that exists in higher ed. It's uniquely a Cornell term for exam. You'd see students that were looking freaked out and you'd say, hey, how you doing? It's like, I got a prelim tonight. I got a prelim tomorrow.
Jackie Morreale (12:21): Prelims. Yes, it's unique. It doesn't matter how many years you are out, the word prelim… it gives me a little bit of anxiety right now.
I made so many great friends, so many great relationships, and I really think that walking uphill in the snow both directions to school gives you a certain sense of grit and that sticks with you.
Marc Wharton (12:52): Yes! It's so interesting because the physical environment, the weather pattern, then the rigor of the classrooms and the large, "weed out" courses you take as freshmen. All of that combines, right? I joined the fraternity and one of the things they did was make us run up Buffalo. In the wintertime with combat boots running up and down Buffalo, not that that's everybody's experience, but walking up Buffalo is everybody's experience. It's a challenging environment and not for every student.
I'm a Cornell alumni admissions ambassador and I meet with prospective students and I give them a sense of, you might be better off in a nurturing environment or you might be competitive and really thrive with the challenge of Cornell, but not both. Be forewarned, it's not for the faint of heart.
Jackie Morreale (13:48): Agree. It's for the really curious, the really motivated, the hardworking group. Although I would say, because I was in one of the smaller colleges for both undergraduate and graduate, it was huge, but it felt small in that way. I did love that there were colleges within the university. I did feel as if I had that small core group that was doing it with me and had my back and all that. It's weird in that way that you're able to find your niche and carve out your core group.
Marc Wharton (14:17): Same thing socially. You're able to find your niche socially because it's such a diverse group of students because of all the different colleges and all the different majors and interests, but also all the different backgrounds and all of that. Everybody can find their niche there. That is another aspect.
Jackie Morreale (14:31): And so many motivated, now 20 years later, so many professionals, as a result are in my friend group and it's just been an amazing thing.
Marc Wharton (14:40): Tidbit about Cornell that we haven't shared is I do a lecture here on the history of Cornell as a land-grant university. So, in our College of Education in the History and Philosophy of Higher Ed course, I'm a guest lecturer and I lecture on the land-grant universities and their impact on the US and our society, using Cornell as the exemplar of the impact. So sometime when you and I have a chance, I'll tell you some information about Cornell I can almost guarantee you don't know, that is really fabulous about the two founders.
Jackie Morreale (15:06): Yes. Ezra Cornell and E.B. White. I would love to take your course and listen to you speak on it. I would love to learn anything there is to know that comes out of your brain, Marc, honestly.
Speaking of, someone really smart once told me that you have to be your most authentic self in every area of your life. Happened to be someone who might be on this call. I really appreciated that wisdom and I'm just wondering, do you have an inspirational quote that you would want to share for life?
Marc Wharton (15:45): This is the one, it's in my email. It's in my signature. The quote is from Tagore, an Indian philosopher, poet, musical composer. He was not literally a Renaissance man, meaning he wasn't born during the Renaissance, but that description applies to him almost like no other. He says:
"I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy."
I just love it. It's really defining for me. I mentioned earlier that, I feel blessed that my profession is my calling. It's because my profession is grounded in service. Nothing, I believe, can bring more joy than a life of purpose servicing others. So yes, that's sort of a defining quote.
Jackie Morreale (16:33): Well now I'm going to read that quote differently. I have read it from you over and over and over again.
I agree, service is joy. There's something about giving to others that is really a gift to yourself. In terms of pursuing your calling and your purpose, I think that is also a huge component of joy and being able to fulfill your purpose and know what it is. That was a hard thing for me to figure out myself. I still trying to figure it out.
Let's talk about some of the work that you did before what you're currently doing and you're currently fulfilling this amazing purpose and giving back in such a big way. On fashion. How did you get started in the fashion world?
Marc Wharton (16:54): My first start was in high school as a part-time job. I worked at a department store. This was in St. Louis and it was a local department store. My job was pushing around one of those big open buggies and collecting the sends from each department, taking it to the loading dock and having it packaged and shipped out. If a customer came in and wanted to ship or send something they purchased back home or to someone else, they would sit at a certain place at the register and I would come by and collect all the sends throughout the building and then get them out.
Now simultaneous to why that is, is my mother was an absolute icon of fashion. She made her own clothes, she designed her own clothes. Although I was very much the typical guy in terms of playing sports and hanging out, one of my favorite activities was to go clothes shopping with my mother. So her taste rubbed off on me. I had a real love of fashion.
Then flash forward to Cornell, my senior year, interviewing. In the Career Center, there was a board that showed the upcoming companies and the dates they would be there. There was Bloomingdale's. I remember thinking, Bloomingdale's? How could you use a college degree for a department store? I'm thinking all you do is sales help, and store managers, or something like that. But I interviewed, and interesting enough, the person that recruited me, he worked in HR at Bloomingdale's, but he graduated from the AG EC program at Cornell himself maybe four years earlier. He was saying to me how, I know for a fact that the degree you earned is going to be a great foundation for success because it's the same degree I have. Then he explained to me what a fashion buyer was.
The minute he explained that that role was the person that chose the products to go into the stores, sold. I interviewed at Bloomingdale's, got the job. That was my start.
Jackie Morreale (19:07): You were a buyer as your out of college job? Wow.
Marc Wharton (19:12): Yes. My first actual buying assignment was men's dress shirts.
Jackie Morreale (19:19): I'm looking at the details of your cuff and the fit of the collar and everything just perfectly fit and completely makes sense to me. That's so interesting.
As a past Wholesaler. That coveted buyer… That job that really has such power in the industry. Yes, a taste making buyer. Someone who's pulled in a million different directions. Everyone's trying to get your ear.
Marc Wharton (19:35): And Bloomingdale's buyer in particular. A very interesting story about Bloomingdale's when I was there. Marvin Traub was the CEO and he's kind of an icon in the business. One of his mantras was, whether it was one day a week or one day a month, there was a day that all the unsolicited sellers would be invited in. His mantra was: Always take the meeting.
It doesn't matter if you've never heard of the person, never heard of the brand, at least take the meeting, you never know what you might discover. So, I kind of learned that early.
Jackie Morreale (20:12): I love that. As a newbie, as an entrepreneur, wow, people like that with that kind of vision are such a gift. Wish I would have known that 20 years ago. An amazing start.
So, Cornell launched you into this career at Bloomingdale's. You're in buying, I know you also went to branding, marketing. What was the best part about working in the fashion industry in New York City?
Marc Wharton (20:38): I would say my time at Tommy Hilfiger was the highlight of my career. I happened to be at Tommy Hilfiger when it was the hottest brand in America. If you think about the peak life of a brand, I got there on the arc right before the peak. So, I helped explode it, but it was already heading there.
Jackie Morreale (20:56): Not a coincidence at all, my friend. I'm sure that you were a very, very major component of that brand's success. I'm excited for you.
Marc Wharton (21:06): Would be very difficult for me to admit to that with the size of that company and all the people that work there. I was there during a very exciting time.
The opportunity to manage the Northeast territory of that brand. I had Saks Fifth Avenue, Bloomingdale's. Back then, there was a store out of Boston named Filene's. A store out of Washington named Heck Company. But equally or more importantly, I had all of the New York City metro area independent stores.
I had come from, prior to Tommy, the streetwear market in LA. I was connected to all the streetwear local stores in New York selling iconic brand Cross Colors. It's literally the first hip hop clothing brand that ever existed and I was with them at their launch. So, they hired me knowing that Tommy was becoming very popular with the kids, particularly the hip hop market. I had a connection to that market and so I was able to really nurture the growth of that on the retail side.
Also at the same time, I had worked for Bloomingdale's. So, I also had the ability to work with the department stores. So it was just great karma that I had this dual background, and they had a dual business and I had experience in both ends.
Jackie Morreale (22:23): To think that your retail all started in St. Louis, pushing around the cart, with the sends. That's so great.
You have the big department store experience. You had the boutique experience. You had your finger on the pulse of everything that was going on in streetwear. You brought all those different components to this role at Tommy, which sounds like a very low pressure job, by the way.
(Continued below)
Marc's Favorite Quote for Life:
"I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy." - Tagore
Favorite Brands Discussed:
(Continued)
Marc Wharton (22:49): I get hired and my first market, I have Macy's as a client, Macy's was my biggest customer. It's market week, so all the stores throughout the country are coming into New York to purchase for the upcoming season. My sales plan with Macy's was $8 million. So, all day Saturday, all day Sunday, they were in the showroom from 7am to 7pm. They had so many stores and there was so much product and they were such a big customer of Tommy, it took two days to complete the buy.
My sales goal was $8 million. I achieved $10 million.
So that Monday I came in. I could not be more proud of myself. Excited, couldn't wait to see my boss because did you see I got 10 million, not eight? Yes. I see my boss coming down the hallway and he sees me and immediately he looks furious. I don't understand, like Dave, did you see the numbers? Yeah, I saw them. I'm like I hit $10M, and he's like, yeah, but you hit it all wrong. They were supposed to have 30% outerwear they have 35%. They were only supposed to have 28% sweaters. They have 32%.
He listed each category that we hadn't micromanaged to the numbers, regardless of the outcome. He said, I've already spoken to Jennifer, who was the vice president, and her team's coming in this morning, and you're going to redo everything and get it right.
Jackie Morreale (24:06): My gosh. Are you and Dave still buddies?
Marc Wharton (24:11): He's one of my mentors. I learned so much from him.
Jackie Morreale (24:15): Well, that honesty, sometimes you need somebody to kind of check and balance and help you grow, right? Here you are thinking you went so far above and beyond. So, it ended up working out for the long run, I'm hoping?
Marc Wharton (24:26): Yes. We redid it and got it right. And then I went on to have a very successful career there. You mentioned, a favorite moment. That was a favorite part of my journey. But a favorite moment would be when I left Tommy, to join a new company, they brought in Macy's for an appointment that day.
But the entire thing was a setup.
VP called me said we need to come in and meet with you, blah blah blah. We go to the showroom, and there was the buying staff, the vice president.
But it actually was a surprise going away party!
Tommy Hilfiger himself came down to the going away party. He had just authored a book. He had signed the book personally for me, and gave it to me and was in on the surprise party. That was probably my most special moment.
Jackie Morreale (25:13): We get caught up in the glamour and the glitz of the industry. To hear a human moment like that where someone who's the face of the brand and the lifestyle of the brand comes and does something personal like that, at a moment that's also important for him as an author, to be there for your going away party and make it so special for you and your life and career. Those are the human moments; what an amazing moment. I'm happy to hear that they appreciated you and your role.
Marc Wharton (25:39): He was a very human leader. He was an amazing person to work for. True story, when they started, they were small enough that he knew everybody. Say there's 15 people in the company type of thing. He knew everybody by name and knew their families and their whole histories.
By the way, he grew up in Elmira, New York. So he also is an upstate New York origin story.
When we got larger, he had HR create a pocket sized book with everybody in the company by territory, their faces and their names. So, when he would fly to St. Louis and get met at the airport by an employee in St. Louis, he would on the plane look at the faces. If you walked up, he would be able to greet you and say, Hey, Jackie, it's been so great. He would have notes like, your little one is what, 15 now? Because he never wanted it to be anything other than a small business with that kind of contact. Isn't that cool?
Jackie Morreale (26:25): There's nothing better than that, than someone knowing you by name, your story, your family, what's important to you. To me, that's entrepreneurial sales gold. If you can remember people to that degree and connect, you're going to be a loyal customer for life or a loyal employee for life. This is somebody who bends over backwards for you. I didn't know that about Tommy. Wow, those upstate New York roots go strong.
Marc Wharton (26:48): Absolutely. He’s a very good man. I could tell you story after story about the things he did on a personal level for people.
Jackie Morreale (27:02): Speaking of which, what have you learned about yourself based on some of your leadership roles at Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, Victoria Secret?
Marc Wharton (27:11): I would say probably most was how natural leadership came for me and how comfortable I am in the front of the room. I was quickly elevated to roles that got larger and larger. At one point, I was working for Phillips Van Heusen and I probably had 55, 60 people in a division that reported up to me, and $300 million in business.
It just felt very comfortable. I would say learning how comfortable I am with leadership.
Jackie Morreale (27:42): To spend a couple days with you last month and to see how easily you're able to get to the front of a room full of executives and various businesses and just command the attention and hear crickets, and everyone just waiting for your next word to come out of your mouth. It's almost palpable. Your leadership style really is very commanding and yet very endearing and you connect with people on a level that shows that you love what you're doing. I can only imagine the power you yielded in these positions.
I absolutely think you're right, that that leadership skill comes naturally to you. I look forward to seeing what you do with it after you get your PhD, too.
So what were some of your key learnings? I know we've talked about apparel fit. Let's get into the nitty gritty. What were some of your key learnings about apparel fit or consumer behavior, apparel branding, anything that sticks out?
Marc Wharton (28:37): Sure. So, fit.
You talked about in your podcast with your mentor at Cornell. Apparel fit it is an incredibly complex personal journey for the consumer.
Jackie Morreale (28:45): Professor Susan Ashdown, yes!
Marc Wharton (28:58): I think it's probably obvious and widely known, the whole thing that women go through. When it's summer and it's going to buy swimsuits. In my own personal life, my ex-wife, my mother, my cousins, my friends, you would hear the anxiety of, my God, I've got to go try on swimsuits and how traumatic that experience is.
Probably less known is the internal trauma that men can go through. It's not maybe as penetrating in terms of the percentage of men that have difficulty with fit, but it's every bit as real for those men that do. There's a brand that takes on a strategy from the women's world that I worked. They were a competing brand. What they would do is make everything one size larger than the labeled size. If the man was looking for a short and was looking for a 38 inch waist, it would be labeled 38, but it actually be a 40 inch waist. That reinforced that I haven't gained weight or if I've gained weight, it's not been that significant.
That's a very common strategy in women's sportswear that the fit is a half size to a whole size larger than the label. The woman that's self-conscious about wearing a 14 is able to buy a 12, which is actually a 14.
Jackie Morreale (30:11): The vanity sizing is so interesting to me. And yes, I have researched this because it has been an area of trauma and concern in my own life. Isn't that interesting how usually we're drawn to the research of stuff that affects us?
Marc Wharton (30:23): It’s personal.
Jackie Morreale (30:25): To be able to see a number and feel comfortable with it, it's so interesting. I appreciate the brands that take on that strategy.
Marc Wharton (30:33): I spent four years in women's sportswear when I worked for a division of Macy's and it was my first exposure from the retailer side, instead of from the customer side. Going to market with the buyers, my first trip, we're in the sportswear market. Our brands were Liz Claiborne, Jones New York. Very much career brands.
I was looking at the fashion from a male's consumer perspective, saying, I really love that silhouette. The woman next to me, the buyer was saying to me, Yeah, none of our customer is going to wear that skirt. I'm like, That skirt is really hot. Yeah, but they're not going to be comfortable in a short A-frame skirt; they would probably be more comfortable in a dirndl.
Understanding just how much fit went into the buy in order to be successful was a real eye-opener for me. It's an interesting part of fashion.
Jackie Morreale (31:28): Do you have any memorable stories you want to share from your fashion world?
Marc Wharton (31:32): One of the most memorable experiences was when I was at Tommy. This relates to Devil Wears Prada, where the central figure is based on Anna Wintour.
I've circled her, if you will, in the industry.
I'm very aware of how accurate that movie is. All of my friends will say to me, how much of that movie is accurate? And I'll say 100%. Every scene, I don't care how extreme it seemed to you, all of it felt real to me.
One of the things that I experienced was managing such important accounts at Tommy Hilfiger, Macy's, Bloomingdale, Saks. When we would have our annual runway shows during New York Fashion Week, there really is a seating chart. I would come down into the PR department and they'd have this massive seating chart.
You would see Anna Wintour has the A1 position, period. Front and center. Then everything flows from her.
They would want to know, CEO of Macy's relative to the CEO of Saks relative to the CEO of Bloomingdale's, where do we need to seat them? Then you're looking at the chart and the celebrities names are penciled in. That whole hypersensitivity for the seating at a fashion show straight from that movie, very, very, very real. If you sat Anna somewhere she was unhappy, you'd be punished editorially.
Jackie Morreale (32:52): So were you behind the scenes at the Tommy Runway shows for Fashion Week?
Marc Wharton (32:56): I was. Certainly the men's shows. I might've attended the women's shows, but often I was behind the scenes for the men's show and with no functional role. That was all the design and PR team. But I had the ability to go backstage.
Jackie Morreale (33:09): After you finish your dissertation, I think some sort of a memoir on your experience backstage might be your next bestselling book? Just putting it out there.
You have managed notable brands for over 20 years, both as an employee and as an entrepreneur with Wharton Brand Management. What are a few simple branding tips that you can offer to new companies to help them stand out?
Marc Wharton (33:38): Sure. I think starting with laser focus defining your target population.
Who is your customer? I mean, intimately knowing who your customer is.
I had several moments in my career where someone in leadership would say things like:
There was a buyer at division of Macy's when I was young. He bought young men's jeans. And he would go park in front of the high school at three o'clock to watch the high school kids come out of the school to know his customer. In today's world, that's creepy… he would be arrested, lol.
Jackie Morreale (34:14): For the sake of good marketing research. That's so interesting. I've even heard give her a name or give him a name. Just to personify this target market.
Marc Wharton (34:23): Absolutely. When I was at a division of Reebok, was a golf brand, Greg Norman, the design team, the head designer was very directional and wanted to lead the customer with very directional fashion. I was in touch with the retailers and sales.
I knew that all these directional things weren't selling.
He thought it was only a moment of time. One of the things we did was we sent all of our in-store merchandisers throughout the country into the store to take pictures of our customer at the register. It was a 55-year-old overweight golfer – a slob – like Archie Bunker.
We brought those photographs into design. He could have started crying because he was like that's my customer!
Jackie Morreale (35:09): Wow, so he was designing for someone so different in his head, not just the 20% better or more beautiful, but someone completely different.
Marc Wharton (35:17): Completely different. I knew this, but he got to see it with his own eyes and that helped us shape our direction.
Tip one: Note every aspect there is about your customer.
Marvin Traub, when I started at Bloomingdale's, in our orientation, he said, you won't last if you live in your apartment here in New York. You've got to go to the movies, you’ve got to go to dinner, you’ve got to go to Broadway shows.
You've got to be out in the public so you know who our customer is and what's going on out there. Or you'll fail as a buyer. So know your customer.
Second, I would say commitment to quality. Whether you've got a product or a service, it has to be the highest quality possible in your market. Everything's a price point.
If you're making products for Walmart, there's a quality expectation for that customer. If you're making products for Bloomingdale's, there's a different quality expectation. Either way, meet that quality expectation, if not exceed the quality of expectation.
Taking something out of the product is a fail, no matter what the accounting people tell you.
(Continued below)
Marc Wharton (22:49): I get hired and my first market, I have Macy's as a client, Macy's was my biggest customer. It's market week, so all the stores throughout the country are coming into New York to purchase for the upcoming season. My sales plan with Macy's was $8 million. So, all day Saturday, all day Sunday, they were in the showroom from 7am to 7pm. They had so many stores and there was so much product and they were such a big customer of Tommy, it took two days to complete the buy.
My sales goal was $8 million. I achieved $10 million.
So that Monday I came in. I could not be more proud of myself. Excited, couldn't wait to see my boss because did you see I got 10 million, not eight? Yes. I see my boss coming down the hallway and he sees me and immediately he looks furious. I don't understand, like Dave, did you see the numbers? Yeah, I saw them. I'm like I hit $10M, and he's like, yeah, but you hit it all wrong. They were supposed to have 30% outerwear they have 35%. They were only supposed to have 28% sweaters. They have 32%.
He listed each category that we hadn't micromanaged to the numbers, regardless of the outcome. He said, I've already spoken to Jennifer, who was the vice president, and her team's coming in this morning, and you're going to redo everything and get it right.
Jackie Morreale (24:06): My gosh. Are you and Dave still buddies?
Marc Wharton (24:11): He's one of my mentors. I learned so much from him.
Jackie Morreale (24:15): Well, that honesty, sometimes you need somebody to kind of check and balance and help you grow, right? Here you are thinking you went so far above and beyond. So, it ended up working out for the long run, I'm hoping?
Marc Wharton (24:26): Yes. We redid it and got it right. And then I went on to have a very successful career there. You mentioned, a favorite moment. That was a favorite part of my journey. But a favorite moment would be when I left Tommy, to join a new company, they brought in Macy's for an appointment that day.
But the entire thing was a setup.
VP called me said we need to come in and meet with you, blah blah blah. We go to the showroom, and there was the buying staff, the vice president.
But it actually was a surprise going away party!
Tommy Hilfiger himself came down to the going away party. He had just authored a book. He had signed the book personally for me, and gave it to me and was in on the surprise party. That was probably my most special moment.
Jackie Morreale (25:13): We get caught up in the glamour and the glitz of the industry. To hear a human moment like that where someone who's the face of the brand and the lifestyle of the brand comes and does something personal like that, at a moment that's also important for him as an author, to be there for your going away party and make it so special for you and your life and career. Those are the human moments; what an amazing moment. I'm happy to hear that they appreciated you and your role.
Marc Wharton (25:39): He was a very human leader. He was an amazing person to work for. True story, when they started, they were small enough that he knew everybody. Say there's 15 people in the company type of thing. He knew everybody by name and knew their families and their whole histories.
By the way, he grew up in Elmira, New York. So he also is an upstate New York origin story.
When we got larger, he had HR create a pocket sized book with everybody in the company by territory, their faces and their names. So, when he would fly to St. Louis and get met at the airport by an employee in St. Louis, he would on the plane look at the faces. If you walked up, he would be able to greet you and say, Hey, Jackie, it's been so great. He would have notes like, your little one is what, 15 now? Because he never wanted it to be anything other than a small business with that kind of contact. Isn't that cool?
Jackie Morreale (26:25): There's nothing better than that, than someone knowing you by name, your story, your family, what's important to you. To me, that's entrepreneurial sales gold. If you can remember people to that degree and connect, you're going to be a loyal customer for life or a loyal employee for life. This is somebody who bends over backwards for you. I didn't know that about Tommy. Wow, those upstate New York roots go strong.
Marc Wharton (26:48): Absolutely. He’s a very good man. I could tell you story after story about the things he did on a personal level for people.
Jackie Morreale (27:02): Speaking of which, what have you learned about yourself based on some of your leadership roles at Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, Victoria Secret?
Marc Wharton (27:11): I would say probably most was how natural leadership came for me and how comfortable I am in the front of the room. I was quickly elevated to roles that got larger and larger. At one point, I was working for Phillips Van Heusen and I probably had 55, 60 people in a division that reported up to me, and $300 million in business.
It just felt very comfortable. I would say learning how comfortable I am with leadership.
Jackie Morreale (27:42): To spend a couple days with you last month and to see how easily you're able to get to the front of a room full of executives and various businesses and just command the attention and hear crickets, and everyone just waiting for your next word to come out of your mouth. It's almost palpable. Your leadership style really is very commanding and yet very endearing and you connect with people on a level that shows that you love what you're doing. I can only imagine the power you yielded in these positions.
I absolutely think you're right, that that leadership skill comes naturally to you. I look forward to seeing what you do with it after you get your PhD, too.
So what were some of your key learnings? I know we've talked about apparel fit. Let's get into the nitty gritty. What were some of your key learnings about apparel fit or consumer behavior, apparel branding, anything that sticks out?
Marc Wharton (28:37): Sure. So, fit.
You talked about in your podcast with your mentor at Cornell. Apparel fit it is an incredibly complex personal journey for the consumer.
Jackie Morreale (28:45): Professor Susan Ashdown, yes!
Marc Wharton (28:58): I think it's probably obvious and widely known, the whole thing that women go through. When it's summer and it's going to buy swimsuits. In my own personal life, my ex-wife, my mother, my cousins, my friends, you would hear the anxiety of, my God, I've got to go try on swimsuits and how traumatic that experience is.
Probably less known is the internal trauma that men can go through. It's not maybe as penetrating in terms of the percentage of men that have difficulty with fit, but it's every bit as real for those men that do. There's a brand that takes on a strategy from the women's world that I worked. They were a competing brand. What they would do is make everything one size larger than the labeled size. If the man was looking for a short and was looking for a 38 inch waist, it would be labeled 38, but it actually be a 40 inch waist. That reinforced that I haven't gained weight or if I've gained weight, it's not been that significant.
That's a very common strategy in women's sportswear that the fit is a half size to a whole size larger than the label. The woman that's self-conscious about wearing a 14 is able to buy a 12, which is actually a 14.
Jackie Morreale (30:11): The vanity sizing is so interesting to me. And yes, I have researched this because it has been an area of trauma and concern in my own life. Isn't that interesting how usually we're drawn to the research of stuff that affects us?
Marc Wharton (30:23): It’s personal.
Jackie Morreale (30:25): To be able to see a number and feel comfortable with it, it's so interesting. I appreciate the brands that take on that strategy.
Marc Wharton (30:33): I spent four years in women's sportswear when I worked for a division of Macy's and it was my first exposure from the retailer side, instead of from the customer side. Going to market with the buyers, my first trip, we're in the sportswear market. Our brands were Liz Claiborne, Jones New York. Very much career brands.
I was looking at the fashion from a male's consumer perspective, saying, I really love that silhouette. The woman next to me, the buyer was saying to me, Yeah, none of our customer is going to wear that skirt. I'm like, That skirt is really hot. Yeah, but they're not going to be comfortable in a short A-frame skirt; they would probably be more comfortable in a dirndl.
Understanding just how much fit went into the buy in order to be successful was a real eye-opener for me. It's an interesting part of fashion.
Jackie Morreale (31:28): Do you have any memorable stories you want to share from your fashion world?
Marc Wharton (31:32): One of the most memorable experiences was when I was at Tommy. This relates to Devil Wears Prada, where the central figure is based on Anna Wintour.
I've circled her, if you will, in the industry.
I'm very aware of how accurate that movie is. All of my friends will say to me, how much of that movie is accurate? And I'll say 100%. Every scene, I don't care how extreme it seemed to you, all of it felt real to me.
One of the things that I experienced was managing such important accounts at Tommy Hilfiger, Macy's, Bloomingdale, Saks. When we would have our annual runway shows during New York Fashion Week, there really is a seating chart. I would come down into the PR department and they'd have this massive seating chart.
You would see Anna Wintour has the A1 position, period. Front and center. Then everything flows from her.
They would want to know, CEO of Macy's relative to the CEO of Saks relative to the CEO of Bloomingdale's, where do we need to seat them? Then you're looking at the chart and the celebrities names are penciled in. That whole hypersensitivity for the seating at a fashion show straight from that movie, very, very, very real. If you sat Anna somewhere she was unhappy, you'd be punished editorially.
Jackie Morreale (32:52): So were you behind the scenes at the Tommy Runway shows for Fashion Week?
Marc Wharton (32:56): I was. Certainly the men's shows. I might've attended the women's shows, but often I was behind the scenes for the men's show and with no functional role. That was all the design and PR team. But I had the ability to go backstage.
Jackie Morreale (33:09): After you finish your dissertation, I think some sort of a memoir on your experience backstage might be your next bestselling book? Just putting it out there.
You have managed notable brands for over 20 years, both as an employee and as an entrepreneur with Wharton Brand Management. What are a few simple branding tips that you can offer to new companies to help them stand out?
Marc Wharton (33:38): Sure. I think starting with laser focus defining your target population.
Who is your customer? I mean, intimately knowing who your customer is.
I had several moments in my career where someone in leadership would say things like:
- Where do they eat?
- What movies do they choose?
- What music do they listen to?
- Where do they shop?
There was a buyer at division of Macy's when I was young. He bought young men's jeans. And he would go park in front of the high school at three o'clock to watch the high school kids come out of the school to know his customer. In today's world, that's creepy… he would be arrested, lol.
Jackie Morreale (34:14): For the sake of good marketing research. That's so interesting. I've even heard give her a name or give him a name. Just to personify this target market.
Marc Wharton (34:23): Absolutely. When I was at a division of Reebok, was a golf brand, Greg Norman, the design team, the head designer was very directional and wanted to lead the customer with very directional fashion. I was in touch with the retailers and sales.
I knew that all these directional things weren't selling.
He thought it was only a moment of time. One of the things we did was we sent all of our in-store merchandisers throughout the country into the store to take pictures of our customer at the register. It was a 55-year-old overweight golfer – a slob – like Archie Bunker.
We brought those photographs into design. He could have started crying because he was like that's my customer!
Jackie Morreale (35:09): Wow, so he was designing for someone so different in his head, not just the 20% better or more beautiful, but someone completely different.
Marc Wharton (35:17): Completely different. I knew this, but he got to see it with his own eyes and that helped us shape our direction.
Tip one: Note every aspect there is about your customer.
Marvin Traub, when I started at Bloomingdale's, in our orientation, he said, you won't last if you live in your apartment here in New York. You've got to go to the movies, you’ve got to go to dinner, you’ve got to go to Broadway shows.
You've got to be out in the public so you know who our customer is and what's going on out there. Or you'll fail as a buyer. So know your customer.
Second, I would say commitment to quality. Whether you've got a product or a service, it has to be the highest quality possible in your market. Everything's a price point.
If you're making products for Walmart, there's a quality expectation for that customer. If you're making products for Bloomingdale's, there's a different quality expectation. Either way, meet that quality expectation, if not exceed the quality of expectation.
Taking something out of the product is a fail, no matter what the accounting people tell you.
(Continued below)
More about the Executive PhD program at Florida Atlantic University:
(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (36:23): I love that you have this buying, marketing and sales background and you bridge the gap with design, too, to really identify areas of growth.
We have the target marketing, the quality, do we have any other seeds of wisdom for branding? Final one.
Marc Wharton (36:36): Final one. A commitment to excellence on the team. Every single person you hire, hire the single best person you can afford to hire and then trade up constantly. So, you don't want to be the Kansas City Chiefs and even with their three runs to the Super Bowl and two championships, you don't want to be them.
You want to be the All-Star team where every position is filled with someone that you think is an All-Star.
That should be aspirational. Obviously, a startup is not going to necessarily be able to do that. But I used to say, I live for the day that at a staff meeting, I can look around the room and go All-Star, All-Star, All-Star, all the way around the room.
Then I know that we will exceed our internal expectations and our competition.
Jackie Morreale (37:20): It's all about the people, huh?
Marc Wharton (37:21): Yes, it really is.
Once you hire those talented people, empower them to make decisions and do their jobs.
Jackie Morreale (37:27): Speaking of people, because now you've been a taste maker in the fashion world and now you're a taste maker bringing in new PhD students, right? I have my PhD FAU hat again on to share. Any advice for new graduate students, PhD students, based on your experience in both professional and academic roles?
Marc Wharton (37:51): I think the most important advice is realistically appreciating how much time the pursuit of a PhD requires. The reading alone would stagger most people. The first time somebody encounters a syllabus and looks at the reading assignments, they're like, you’ve got to be joking. There's no way.
Really allocating and preparing for the amount of time it requires, finding an environment that you can be focused and make progress with the work.
But I think probably overarching, enjoy the journey. It's the most intellectually fulfilling academic journey one could possibly go on and enjoy it.
Embrace the difficulty, embrace the challenge. Enjoy it.
Jackie Morreale (38:33): Anyone you'd like to shout out or thank for being there along the way to get you where you are in your career today?
Marc Wharton (38:40): I've had some really, really good influencers in my career. I worked for a man named Peter Corritori. He was the dress shirt buyer at Bloomingdale's. I was assistant buyer. He was a Harvard Business School graduate, and he taught me in the world of business, it's either perfect or it's a failure. There's nothing in between.
Jackie Morreale (38:58): So you had a male version of Anna Wintour as your first boss.
Marc Wharton (39:00): Yes! My first job.
Then it was Dave McTague that sent me back to redo the Macy's buy. He was an absolute showman.
He taught me in the showroom to put on a show, to put on a performance and embrace the joy that everybody in that room loves fashion. The buyers love fashion, you love fashion. Don't make it a grind, make it fun. He brought fun to sales.
Maryann McGeorge was my boss at Macy's as well. She showed me how important female leadership is in terms of some of the innate differences between men and women and how they lead. She created a family in a very similar way.
To Sybil Alfred, who is my director now. She brings this sort of leadership through the lens of motherhood to the job. I enjoy both of them as two of the best leaders I've ever had.
Then finally, a gentleman named Allen Questrom. He was the CEO of Macy's, the CEO of Federated Department Stores, the CEO of Barney's. The College of Business at Boston University is named the Allen Questrom School of Business in his name. He was an undergraduate graduate of Boston University.
Allen Questrom was the most intelligent man I ever met in my entire life. He was an absolute genius. He loved solving problems, and he loved making decisions. Many people in business struggle with decision making. You gave him a complex situation that needed some guidance, he would light up like a Christmas tree at the opportunity to guide you in making a decision.
Too many businesses struggle waiting for leadership to decide. This notion of take another meeting, form a committee, create a task force. That slows an organization down and it's typically reflective of someone who will say we need more information, but ultimately, they are just hesitant to be responsible for the decision.
He taught me, All you can do is be wrong. Get over that piece. Make a decision.
Jackie Morreale (41:04): It's basically fear that's holding us up. The worst thing is being wrong, right? So just act and move and see and improve next time.
Marc Wharton (41:07): Yes. Learn from the mistake.
There's an opportunity in making that mistake.
Just make the decision.
I'm extremely decisive and have been because of my experience with him.
So those would be the group of people that had the most impact on my journey.
Jackie Morreale (41:29): It sounds like you've always surrounded yourself with smart, impactful people. I'm happy to be talking to you right now as part of that circle as it's expanding for a new year. Thank you so much for your time and sharing your insights. I'm so thankful for what you do. I'm so thankful that you have this big picture, worldly industry experience. And now somehow, you've found your home at Florida Atlantic University and that we've met, and you've welcomed us as a new cohort. I'm so thankful that you found your calling in this role.
Marc Wharton (42:01): Thank you, thank you so much Jackie. I really appreciate the opportunity to have this chat. Enjoyed it. You and I could talk forever!
Jackie Morreale (42:08): Forever, exactly. Thank you so much and all the best of luck to you, Marc.
Marc Wharton (42:12): Thank you!
To learn more about FAU's Executive PhD Program, visit:
Executive PhD in Business Administration | FAU Business
Jackie Morreale (36:23): I love that you have this buying, marketing and sales background and you bridge the gap with design, too, to really identify areas of growth.
We have the target marketing, the quality, do we have any other seeds of wisdom for branding? Final one.
Marc Wharton (36:36): Final one. A commitment to excellence on the team. Every single person you hire, hire the single best person you can afford to hire and then trade up constantly. So, you don't want to be the Kansas City Chiefs and even with their three runs to the Super Bowl and two championships, you don't want to be them.
You want to be the All-Star team where every position is filled with someone that you think is an All-Star.
That should be aspirational. Obviously, a startup is not going to necessarily be able to do that. But I used to say, I live for the day that at a staff meeting, I can look around the room and go All-Star, All-Star, All-Star, all the way around the room.
Then I know that we will exceed our internal expectations and our competition.
Jackie Morreale (37:20): It's all about the people, huh?
Marc Wharton (37:21): Yes, it really is.
Once you hire those talented people, empower them to make decisions and do their jobs.
Jackie Morreale (37:27): Speaking of people, because now you've been a taste maker in the fashion world and now you're a taste maker bringing in new PhD students, right? I have my PhD FAU hat again on to share. Any advice for new graduate students, PhD students, based on your experience in both professional and academic roles?
Marc Wharton (37:51): I think the most important advice is realistically appreciating how much time the pursuit of a PhD requires. The reading alone would stagger most people. The first time somebody encounters a syllabus and looks at the reading assignments, they're like, you’ve got to be joking. There's no way.
Really allocating and preparing for the amount of time it requires, finding an environment that you can be focused and make progress with the work.
But I think probably overarching, enjoy the journey. It's the most intellectually fulfilling academic journey one could possibly go on and enjoy it.
Embrace the difficulty, embrace the challenge. Enjoy it.
Jackie Morreale (38:33): Anyone you'd like to shout out or thank for being there along the way to get you where you are in your career today?
Marc Wharton (38:40): I've had some really, really good influencers in my career. I worked for a man named Peter Corritori. He was the dress shirt buyer at Bloomingdale's. I was assistant buyer. He was a Harvard Business School graduate, and he taught me in the world of business, it's either perfect or it's a failure. There's nothing in between.
Jackie Morreale (38:58): So you had a male version of Anna Wintour as your first boss.
Marc Wharton (39:00): Yes! My first job.
Then it was Dave McTague that sent me back to redo the Macy's buy. He was an absolute showman.
He taught me in the showroom to put on a show, to put on a performance and embrace the joy that everybody in that room loves fashion. The buyers love fashion, you love fashion. Don't make it a grind, make it fun. He brought fun to sales.
Maryann McGeorge was my boss at Macy's as well. She showed me how important female leadership is in terms of some of the innate differences between men and women and how they lead. She created a family in a very similar way.
To Sybil Alfred, who is my director now. She brings this sort of leadership through the lens of motherhood to the job. I enjoy both of them as two of the best leaders I've ever had.
Then finally, a gentleman named Allen Questrom. He was the CEO of Macy's, the CEO of Federated Department Stores, the CEO of Barney's. The College of Business at Boston University is named the Allen Questrom School of Business in his name. He was an undergraduate graduate of Boston University.
Allen Questrom was the most intelligent man I ever met in my entire life. He was an absolute genius. He loved solving problems, and he loved making decisions. Many people in business struggle with decision making. You gave him a complex situation that needed some guidance, he would light up like a Christmas tree at the opportunity to guide you in making a decision.
Too many businesses struggle waiting for leadership to decide. This notion of take another meeting, form a committee, create a task force. That slows an organization down and it's typically reflective of someone who will say we need more information, but ultimately, they are just hesitant to be responsible for the decision.
He taught me, All you can do is be wrong. Get over that piece. Make a decision.
Jackie Morreale (41:04): It's basically fear that's holding us up. The worst thing is being wrong, right? So just act and move and see and improve next time.
Marc Wharton (41:07): Yes. Learn from the mistake.
There's an opportunity in making that mistake.
Just make the decision.
I'm extremely decisive and have been because of my experience with him.
So those would be the group of people that had the most impact on my journey.
Jackie Morreale (41:29): It sounds like you've always surrounded yourself with smart, impactful people. I'm happy to be talking to you right now as part of that circle as it's expanding for a new year. Thank you so much for your time and sharing your insights. I'm so thankful for what you do. I'm so thankful that you have this big picture, worldly industry experience. And now somehow, you've found your home at Florida Atlantic University and that we've met, and you've welcomed us as a new cohort. I'm so thankful that you found your calling in this role.
Marc Wharton (42:01): Thank you, thank you so much Jackie. I really appreciate the opportunity to have this chat. Enjoyed it. You and I could talk forever!
Jackie Morreale (42:08): Forever, exactly. Thank you so much and all the best of luck to you, Marc.
Marc Wharton (42:12): Thank you!
To learn more about FAU's Executive PhD Program, visit:
Executive PhD in Business Administration | FAU Business
Continued reading, recommended by Marc Wharton:
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