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Featured Guest:
Dr. Lee Baucom, PhD Relationship Expert, Author, Entrepreneur Founder, Book-to-Business Blueprint Published Date: May 14, 2026 In this episode of Wisdom for Wannabes, host Jackie Morreale interviews relationship expert, entrepreneur, and author coach Dr. Lee Baucom about his mission to help authors turn their books into meaningful businesses through his Book-to-Business Blueprint program. Drawing from more than two decades of experience in relationships, coaching, and publishing, Lee explains why many authors struggle after publishing—not because they lack talent, but because they lack a roadmap for what comes next. The conversation explores the parallels between relationships and entrepreneurship, the importance of connection, authenticity, and alignment, and why sustainable growth comes from manageable steps rather than overwhelm. Lee also shares insights on fear, visibility, audience-building, and how authors can uncover the hidden frameworks already embedded within their books to create businesses that match their values, message, and ideal lifestyle. |
Listen to/watch the full podcast recording, or read the transcript below:
Full Interview with Dr. Lee Baucom:
"Your book has way more in it than you've given it credit for. How you mine that is what makes the difference between just that book sitting there and it being more important to the world."
- Dr. Lee Baucom (Wisdom for Wannabes episode 57, 41:01)
Great quotes from the interview:
(More great quotes throughout the transcript in blue below.)
- “Authors are never taught what to do after the book.”
- “A book can be the beginning of a business—not just a product.”
- “Fear is not an avoidance indicator; it’s often an importance indicator.”
- “You don’t build a business overnight—you build it one manageable step at a time.”
- “Your book has way more in it than you’ve given it credit for.”
- “Authors already have authority—they just haven’t figured out how to use it yet.”
- “People who understand their fear are not stuck in it.”
- “You don’t have to be everywhere; you have to figure out where your people are.”
- “Every business solves a problem.”
- “The world needs more positive messages—and more ways to get those messages out there.”
(More great quotes throughout the transcript in blue below.)
Dr. Lee Baucom, PhD
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Key Takeaways:
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Interview Transcript:
Jackie Morreale (00:00)
Hello and welcome to Wisdom for Wannabes, the podcast that seeks to find wise words in business, beauty, and betterment. I am the host, Jackie Morreale.
Today, I am excited to welcome Dr. Lee Baucom. Lee, welcome to Wisdom for Wannabes! Thank you so much for being here!
Lee Baucom (00:18)
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Jackie Morreale (00:20)
Me too. Lee is a relationship expert, author, and entrepreneur whose work has helped thousands of people navigate love, communication, and meaningful relationships. Many of you may know him through his books and relationship programs, including Save the Marriage, The Connection Compass, and Unpause Your Marriage. Sending lots of love out there to all the couples who have been through Lee's programs.
What makes today's conversation especially timely is that Lee is now bringing the same depth of insight and clarity to a new chapter of his work in which he's helping authors turn their ideas, experience and books into sustainable businesses. Yes! Through his Book-to-Business Blueprint program, Lee is showing creatives how to align purpose with practical strategy.
Once welcome to Wisdom for Wannabes, Dr. Lee Baucom!
Lee Baucom (01:10)
Thank you.
Jackie Morreale (01:10)
For listeners who may be meeting you for the first time, can you please share your full name, where you're from, and where you are working nowadays?
Lee Baucom (01:17)
My name is Lee Baucom. I was born in North Carolina, then left North Carolina in my adulthood for grad school and pretty much my entire adult and married life until four years ago, when we moved back. We lived in Louisville, Kentucky, for those 34 years. Then we came back to North Carolina, to our roots, and to be close to family.
Jackie Morreale (01:36)
There's something nice about coming home. I'm sure that your family and friends in North Carolina are very happy.
Lee Baucom (01:42)
We realized during the pandemic that relationships were what was stressed, so we wanted to be close. Both of my kids are adults, and they were away. We moved back to be close to my parents, particularly. It turns out we moved to an area with a lot of roots for my family that I didn't even know about until we got back.
Jackie Morreale (01:59)
Sounds like it was meant to be. What do you do now, in your own words?
Lee Baucom (02:03)
I do coaching. Specifically, I do relationship coaching in one arena. Then, I work with authors who are trying to figure out what to do with their book. The relationship work I still do, that's where I started as a therapist, and decided that the therapy world was not my world, that the coaching world was. That started the whole writing thing.
I wrote what never became a book. It was intended to be a book, and it became a program. That's the Save the Marriage program. That was back in 1999. It morphed into a business that I didn't expect. I wish I had been thinking about things strategically back then. I realized that's the problem.
Authors are not clear that their book could be a business.
After I established that business for a while with relationships, I realized that one of the things I really liked doing is working with authors. I kept doing that. I would be pulled into conversations. I was already coaching and saw a lot of people at events where authors were speaking. I was always asking, ‘What are you going to do with your book?’ Knowing that I had done something. I would get a blank look like, 'What do you mean?' The book is it.
Most people who write a book think that that's going to be it, and that the sales are going to do it. That's not the case. Rarely is the case. It's a very small percentage that have that.
Jackie Morreale (03:09)
Agree. It would be nice, right? If you just put the book out there, and that's the end?
Lee Baucom (03:13)
Wouldn't it? A lot of Facebook groups and Reddit groups with authors, and they're like, 'I wrote my book, what do I do now?' You need to be thinking about that before that, but it's not too late. We just need to think about the architecture of how you put this together.
Jackie Morreale (03:29)
So, you bring in the strategy to help authors transform, just like you did with your program, in whatever industry that their book is relevant to?
Lee Baucom (03:37)
One of the problems that authors have is strategies coming at them like a fire hydrant. Those are the programs, like how to build your six-figure author business, and all these things. It's like a fire hydrant throwing you the water.
Yes, we do the strategy, but I'm really big on the one action at a time approach. Not a fire hydrant. There are some things that every author needs to do to build.
I think of it as this page-to-profit process. You've got to figure out:
Jackie Morreale (04:14)
My background has always been in marketing. It sounds like you're quite good at marketing.
Lee Baucom (04:17)
People have the marketing within. It's locked in their message. They have a message they've already written. They know that message inside and out. What they often forget is the next two steps of that, which you have to create.
You have to figure out what your model is. What is that going to look like as you step. Then, the market piece evolves from that naturally because it's already within you.
When I'm talking about relationships, I've been doing that work for a long time, writing about it a number of times. When I'm doing the author thing, it's because I've also walked down that same path. I know the difficulties of that, and what stopped me, what got me stuck. Now we've got to figure out how to get around that.
Jackie Morreale (04:32)
Very good. What is your passion behind your work, and what about it lights you up?
Lee Baucom (05:01)
What lights me up is people being lit up.
When I'm working with couples or individuals who are in marriages, they're trying to improve.
When I go into a room full of authors, they are on fire to share their message. There's energy there. They just don't know how to do it.
There's all this pent-up capacity, just like in couples.
The common theme is that couples are never taught how to have a great marriage. Authors are never taught what to do after the book. I thought I was an author for a number of years as the business was building around me. People would say, 'What do you do?' I wrote a book, and I do this therapy work. It never occurred to me that what I do is building the business from that book.
I failed to do a few things early on that I wish I had done, but here we are, still here.
Jackie Morreale (05:47)
I can't wait to learn more about your process. It sounds like you've been doing this since 1999; books, learning the process. How long have you been doing this particular work of helping authors bring their Books-to-Business Blueprint program?
Lee Baucom (06:02)
The Blueprint program is not that old. I kept working with authors. I would get an approach from an author, or a publisher would often send me somebody to say, ‘We need some help. That's beyond what we do; they need to launch this. They need to build a platform.’ I would be working with them on that. When I published my first book with a publisher, 12 years ago, that publisher started sending me authors. I finally went, 'How can we make a process that any author can follow if they want to make a business that really fits for them, based on the book that they have spent so much time, so much energy on?'
Jackie Morreale (06:37)
Your Blueprint program really seems like the Holy Grail for most authors.
Lee Baucom (06:42)
Publishers are staying in their lane. Their task is to get your book out there. That doesn't mean they'll market your book. That is a mistake many authors assume.
If they get a traditional deal, which already is a rarity, they expect that that publisher is going to push their book. When they get their advance and the publisher says, now you need to spend your advance on the marketing.
They don't know what to do with that. Then let's go with the people who use other approaches, like self-publishing or maybe a hybrid approach. They even have less guidance than that.
In the end, the building of the business is in many ways separate from the selling of the book. Sometimes, we expect too much from the book. Building the business is in tandem and it works together.
The more I put out podcasts or my relationship stuff, the more people grab my relationship books. The more they grab my relationship books, the more they seek me out on other programs. It kind of works in tandem, but the publishers don't see that because their thing is distribution.
Jackie Morreale (07:32)
Looking at everything you do, from relationship work to helping authors, what is your favorite part of your role?
Lee Baucom (07:48)
I always like the ‘aha’. You can see it. There's the light-up moment in an eye.
Sometimes I'm on the phone and I can hear it.
That's what it's all about.
Isn't that what we want, when somebody's reading our book?
We're switching the thinking. Part of my approach is to find that point for them. What are they missing?
I'm going to pull in a piece from the self-development world because it fits for both. Years ago, people would say, 'You need to have hope.’ I was always going, what do you mean by that?' Nobody could ever quite define that.
Charles Snyder, back in the late 80s, early 90s, was a psychologist who said, 'There is a way we can build hope. It's the HOPE equation.'
There are three pieces to the HOPE equation.
Now what? What's the goal beyond that?
The first thing we have to do is define the same in relationship work. What do you want? What do you want a marriage to look like? Not I just want to avoid a divorce. That's usually not going to get you very far. What do you want that to look like? That's a clear goal, whether it's a book, a relationship, or whatever.
Jackie Morreale (09:02)
Charles Snyder’s work, based on goal setting, charting a path, and being willing to put in the work. I'd imagine there's some getting over your fears in there as well, to those ‘aha’ moments, and take those steps to build toward the goal.
Lee Baucom (09:16)
When I discovered Snyder's work, I had been doing all this work for a long time and I went, 'Wait, that's already fitting for the things I'm doing. It just puts it into three very clear pieces.' I have people; if they're coming to me as an author or for relationship help, they already have a desire to get there. You don't do that unless you're really sure: I want to do this I want to figure out how to do which only leaves that middle step.
Jackie Morreale (09:39)
Right, the 'how'. If you can figure out your why and where you're going, then you're helping them get the how they're getting there. To the ‘aha’.
Lee Baucom (09:48)
That is it. You're correct.
If they have the where and the why, what they have to have is the 'how'.
That ‘how’ piece is something that most people don't just carry around with them.
How do we have a successful marriage? Not many people have a good background in that. Even if you came from a good strong family, you saw your parents in a strong marriage.
How it was a great marriage was… in the quiet, it was hidden.
So, you don't have that, and you don't realize that until you run into the wall. The same with books.
A lot of people will say, 'I know I want to build a business. I've got a book and I know that's going to be the basis of my business.' I'll say, 'How are you going to do don't know' is usually the next piece.
That's right. Let's build a road map. Let's figure out how to do that.
But you can't do the whole road at once.
You have to do it a step at a time, a piece at a time.
That's where the overwhelm comes in. There are lots of sources for that information, which can be overwhelming and create expectations so high that it's daunting to even get started.
If you have too much coming at you, you're never going to figure out that framework either. We have to figure out the step-by-step.
(Continued below)
Hello and welcome to Wisdom for Wannabes, the podcast that seeks to find wise words in business, beauty, and betterment. I am the host, Jackie Morreale.
Today, I am excited to welcome Dr. Lee Baucom. Lee, welcome to Wisdom for Wannabes! Thank you so much for being here!
Lee Baucom (00:18)
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Jackie Morreale (00:20)
Me too. Lee is a relationship expert, author, and entrepreneur whose work has helped thousands of people navigate love, communication, and meaningful relationships. Many of you may know him through his books and relationship programs, including Save the Marriage, The Connection Compass, and Unpause Your Marriage. Sending lots of love out there to all the couples who have been through Lee's programs.
What makes today's conversation especially timely is that Lee is now bringing the same depth of insight and clarity to a new chapter of his work in which he's helping authors turn their ideas, experience and books into sustainable businesses. Yes! Through his Book-to-Business Blueprint program, Lee is showing creatives how to align purpose with practical strategy.
Once welcome to Wisdom for Wannabes, Dr. Lee Baucom!
Lee Baucom (01:10)
Thank you.
Jackie Morreale (01:10)
For listeners who may be meeting you for the first time, can you please share your full name, where you're from, and where you are working nowadays?
Lee Baucom (01:17)
My name is Lee Baucom. I was born in North Carolina, then left North Carolina in my adulthood for grad school and pretty much my entire adult and married life until four years ago, when we moved back. We lived in Louisville, Kentucky, for those 34 years. Then we came back to North Carolina, to our roots, and to be close to family.
Jackie Morreale (01:36)
There's something nice about coming home. I'm sure that your family and friends in North Carolina are very happy.
Lee Baucom (01:42)
We realized during the pandemic that relationships were what was stressed, so we wanted to be close. Both of my kids are adults, and they were away. We moved back to be close to my parents, particularly. It turns out we moved to an area with a lot of roots for my family that I didn't even know about until we got back.
Jackie Morreale (01:59)
Sounds like it was meant to be. What do you do now, in your own words?
Lee Baucom (02:03)
I do coaching. Specifically, I do relationship coaching in one arena. Then, I work with authors who are trying to figure out what to do with their book. The relationship work I still do, that's where I started as a therapist, and decided that the therapy world was not my world, that the coaching world was. That started the whole writing thing.
I wrote what never became a book. It was intended to be a book, and it became a program. That's the Save the Marriage program. That was back in 1999. It morphed into a business that I didn't expect. I wish I had been thinking about things strategically back then. I realized that's the problem.
Authors are not clear that their book could be a business.
After I established that business for a while with relationships, I realized that one of the things I really liked doing is working with authors. I kept doing that. I would be pulled into conversations. I was already coaching and saw a lot of people at events where authors were speaking. I was always asking, ‘What are you going to do with your book?’ Knowing that I had done something. I would get a blank look like, 'What do you mean?' The book is it.
Most people who write a book think that that's going to be it, and that the sales are going to do it. That's not the case. Rarely is the case. It's a very small percentage that have that.
Jackie Morreale (03:09)
Agree. It would be nice, right? If you just put the book out there, and that's the end?
Lee Baucom (03:13)
Wouldn't it? A lot of Facebook groups and Reddit groups with authors, and they're like, 'I wrote my book, what do I do now?' You need to be thinking about that before that, but it's not too late. We just need to think about the architecture of how you put this together.
Jackie Morreale (03:29)
So, you bring in the strategy to help authors transform, just like you did with your program, in whatever industry that their book is relevant to?
Lee Baucom (03:37)
One of the problems that authors have is strategies coming at them like a fire hydrant. Those are the programs, like how to build your six-figure author business, and all these things. It's like a fire hydrant throwing you the water.
Yes, we do the strategy, but I'm really big on the one action at a time approach. Not a fire hydrant. There are some things that every author needs to do to build.
I think of it as this page-to-profit process. You've got to figure out:
- What is your position?
- What does the package look like?
- How are you going to put that together?
- How are you going to promote it?
Jackie Morreale (04:14)
My background has always been in marketing. It sounds like you're quite good at marketing.
Lee Baucom (04:17)
People have the marketing within. It's locked in their message. They have a message they've already written. They know that message inside and out. What they often forget is the next two steps of that, which you have to create.
You have to figure out what your model is. What is that going to look like as you step. Then, the market piece evolves from that naturally because it's already within you.
When I'm talking about relationships, I've been doing that work for a long time, writing about it a number of times. When I'm doing the author thing, it's because I've also walked down that same path. I know the difficulties of that, and what stopped me, what got me stuck. Now we've got to figure out how to get around that.
Jackie Morreale (04:32)
Very good. What is your passion behind your work, and what about it lights you up?
Lee Baucom (05:01)
What lights me up is people being lit up.
When I'm working with couples or individuals who are in marriages, they're trying to improve.
When I go into a room full of authors, they are on fire to share their message. There's energy there. They just don't know how to do it.
There's all this pent-up capacity, just like in couples.
The common theme is that couples are never taught how to have a great marriage. Authors are never taught what to do after the book. I thought I was an author for a number of years as the business was building around me. People would say, 'What do you do?' I wrote a book, and I do this therapy work. It never occurred to me that what I do is building the business from that book.
I failed to do a few things early on that I wish I had done, but here we are, still here.
Jackie Morreale (05:47)
I can't wait to learn more about your process. It sounds like you've been doing this since 1999; books, learning the process. How long have you been doing this particular work of helping authors bring their Books-to-Business Blueprint program?
Lee Baucom (06:02)
The Blueprint program is not that old. I kept working with authors. I would get an approach from an author, or a publisher would often send me somebody to say, ‘We need some help. That's beyond what we do; they need to launch this. They need to build a platform.’ I would be working with them on that. When I published my first book with a publisher, 12 years ago, that publisher started sending me authors. I finally went, 'How can we make a process that any author can follow if they want to make a business that really fits for them, based on the book that they have spent so much time, so much energy on?'
Jackie Morreale (06:37)
Your Blueprint program really seems like the Holy Grail for most authors.
Lee Baucom (06:42)
Publishers are staying in their lane. Their task is to get your book out there. That doesn't mean they'll market your book. That is a mistake many authors assume.
If they get a traditional deal, which already is a rarity, they expect that that publisher is going to push their book. When they get their advance and the publisher says, now you need to spend your advance on the marketing.
They don't know what to do with that. Then let's go with the people who use other approaches, like self-publishing or maybe a hybrid approach. They even have less guidance than that.
In the end, the building of the business is in many ways separate from the selling of the book. Sometimes, we expect too much from the book. Building the business is in tandem and it works together.
The more I put out podcasts or my relationship stuff, the more people grab my relationship books. The more they grab my relationship books, the more they seek me out on other programs. It kind of works in tandem, but the publishers don't see that because their thing is distribution.
Jackie Morreale (07:32)
Looking at everything you do, from relationship work to helping authors, what is your favorite part of your role?
Lee Baucom (07:48)
I always like the ‘aha’. You can see it. There's the light-up moment in an eye.
Sometimes I'm on the phone and I can hear it.
That's what it's all about.
Isn't that what we want, when somebody's reading our book?
We're switching the thinking. Part of my approach is to find that point for them. What are they missing?
I'm going to pull in a piece from the self-development world because it fits for both. Years ago, people would say, 'You need to have hope.’ I was always going, what do you mean by that?' Nobody could ever quite define that.
Charles Snyder, back in the late 80s, early 90s, was a psychologist who said, 'There is a way we can build hope. It's the HOPE equation.'
There are three pieces to the HOPE equation.
- One: Have a clear goal. You have to know where you want to go.
- Two: You have to know how to get there. You have to have a method to get there.
- Three: You have to be willing to do that.
Now what? What's the goal beyond that?
The first thing we have to do is define the same in relationship work. What do you want? What do you want a marriage to look like? Not I just want to avoid a divorce. That's usually not going to get you very far. What do you want that to look like? That's a clear goal, whether it's a book, a relationship, or whatever.
Jackie Morreale (09:02)
Charles Snyder’s work, based on goal setting, charting a path, and being willing to put in the work. I'd imagine there's some getting over your fears in there as well, to those ‘aha’ moments, and take those steps to build toward the goal.
Lee Baucom (09:16)
When I discovered Snyder's work, I had been doing all this work for a long time and I went, 'Wait, that's already fitting for the things I'm doing. It just puts it into three very clear pieces.' I have people; if they're coming to me as an author or for relationship help, they already have a desire to get there. You don't do that unless you're really sure: I want to do this I want to figure out how to do which only leaves that middle step.
Jackie Morreale (09:39)
Right, the 'how'. If you can figure out your why and where you're going, then you're helping them get the how they're getting there. To the ‘aha’.
Lee Baucom (09:48)
That is it. You're correct.
If they have the where and the why, what they have to have is the 'how'.
That ‘how’ piece is something that most people don't just carry around with them.
How do we have a successful marriage? Not many people have a good background in that. Even if you came from a good strong family, you saw your parents in a strong marriage.
How it was a great marriage was… in the quiet, it was hidden.
So, you don't have that, and you don't realize that until you run into the wall. The same with books.
A lot of people will say, 'I know I want to build a business. I've got a book and I know that's going to be the basis of my business.' I'll say, 'How are you going to do don't know' is usually the next piece.
That's right. Let's build a road map. Let's figure out how to do that.
But you can't do the whole road at once.
You have to do it a step at a time, a piece at a time.
That's where the overwhelm comes in. There are lots of sources for that information, which can be overwhelming and create expectations so high that it's daunting to even get started.
If you have too much coming at you, you're never going to figure out that framework either. We have to figure out the step-by-step.
(Continued below)
Learn more about the Book-to-Business Blueprint (https://booktobusinessblueprint.com/):
(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (10:53)
All these different pieces, your academic background, your therapist background, your business background, your author background, relationships, and you’re able to tie it all up with such a nice bow.
You have a deep, thorough understanding of complex topics. I really want to be more like you. So just putting that out there.
Lee Baucom (11:08)
You want to be more like you. The best of yourself is what you want to do.
Jackie Morreale (11:13)
A better version of me, exactly! But ‘more like you’ is a Wisdom for Wannabes theme.
You've spent two decades in the relationship and personal development space. Why authors? Why now?
Lee Baucom (11:26)
My training as a therapist is what led me to work with couples. Part of that was seeing the pain in my own extended family. Uncle and two aunts who were not successful. Watching the damage of how they left those relationships is what left me going, 'How can I help couples?' There's a passion for, 'There's got to be a better way.' Same thing with authors. I found a path, and in some ways, I stumbled along the path.
Being around authors long enough to know some stumbled along and just happened to find it. But it's a lot easier with a map. Knowing that there are messages. This is the big thing for me.
There are so many messages that need to get out there. They don't.
I remember talking with an author who said, 'I just want to have the book.' I'm like, 'What if the person who read that book was like, I need more of that? Would you be able to do something else?' The person was like, 'I guess I could.'
My response was, 'If you don’t, what a loss for your message, what a loss for that person, and what a loss for you. Everybody loses in that.’
How do we get that message into the world?
Because, gracious, the world needs more positivity and more ways of being better in the world. Let's figure that out.
People who come to me aren't the books that I go, 'I don't think we really need that message in the world.' What comes to me are people who have a message that needs to thrive in the world.
Helping do that, nurturing authors, to me, is a lot like nurturing. We need that. We need better relationships in the world for sure. We need better messaging in the world.
Jackie Morreale (12:55)
I just felt so much. I can feel the passion behind it. And I agree. There are so many important messages that need to get out there. I thank you for the work that you're doing to help people get their messages out there, because it is a mission. It is a mission to get that message out there. That message of positivity.
Lee Baucom (13:08)
It is.
Jackie Morreale (13:12)
Those authors who are writing positive messages are what you're attracting because that's what you put out there, too. Are there any similarities between the challenges that couples face and the challenges that authors face when trying to grow something meaningful?
Lee Baucom (13:24)
It's the lack of a roadmap. That is the common theme.
Where the therapy world has gotten stuck is looking at what's wrong with a couple instead of asking: 'How do we help them map a different path?' That's what I've been trying to do.
The same has been true for a lot of authors who wrote the book. What else is there to do? They don't know.
That piece is hidden, just like the relationship piece is hidden. You don't see what's happening behind the scenes. That's true for authors. They see other people who have successful businesses based on their message, and they don't know how to get there.
Whenever I've had longer conversations with people who are like, 'Well, I just wrote the book. I don't know.' I realized that part of what is behind there is something you noted earlier. There's some fear.
They don't know what to do. When we don't know what to do, we often don't do anything.
Part of the task of figuring that out is not to get stuck on the 'I don't do anything because I don't know, and there's so much coming at me.' I still don't do anything to find that place where you can just take the next action in front of you; the next thing that has to be done.
That's where we keep it, in that focus on one thing. What do you need to do this week to move this forward?
Jackie Morreale (14:32)
Is it about baby steps to get there? Baby steps that add up over time? Identifying patterns? Or is it about having the confidence to go into uncharted waters? Any of these themes that resonate in your world?
Lee Baucom (14:45)
Let's go with manageable steps. Baby steps, I think, underestimates what can be behind small steps. So manageable steps.
I was at an author event, and we were sitting down. I said, 'How's it going?' The person said, 'I get all of what that person just said. I don't even know how to start to get there.'
It wasn't a baby step that they needed to do. It was steps, manageable steps.
What the person said on stage is that you basically need to be everywhere all at once. You need to get all of your social media going. Now, he didn't say that sentence, but it was screen after screen after screen of what do you need to be doing? I could watch as I'm around people, going, 'I don't know what to do, there's too much.'
But if you have one thing, what is the one thing to do? They can check that off. It's a manageable step, meaning they can do it, but it is also significant enough that it moves the needle.
No business is built overnight.
When they throw up all of the slides on what to do, I think the intention is to overwhelm enough to get them into a big coaching program to take that apart. That still is just too much.
I also talk with a lot of authors who are at that point of going, 'I've poured my heart, soul, and money into this project. I just can't go into this huge coaching program, but I want to build something.'
That was a big piece of my motivation for how we can build something small, step by step, and get somebody there.
Jackie Morreale (16:06)
The blueprint program, while custom to each author's message, lifestyle, background, is also something that has identified a set of goals that can benefit any author to be part of?
Lee Baucom (16:19)
For me, there is a formula I created for Save the Marriage based on what I think is the underlying problem in a marriage. It happens, marriage after marriage after marriage. That piece doesn't have to be tailored to that particular marriage. How they carry it out is for them to go, 'Oh, we need to do this because of how we view things.'
But the underlying issue is the same. That's true with authors, too.
The steps we take are steps every author needs to take, but they have to figure out how they fit for their message, their audience, and what works for them.
People will say, I don't see you on some social media. I don't have time to be everywhere. I'm more focused on where I am and where people have found me than on tackling every single thing.
You don't have to tackle every single thing. You have to figure out where your people are. That's different from being everywhere all at once.
Jackie Morreale (17:12)
I'm guessing it's got to do with communication because you're really good at communicating. That the underlying problem might have something to do with communication, but that's a question for another interview.
Lee Baucom (17:20)
Actually not. You want to know it?
Jackie Morreale (17:21)
Yes, I want to know!
Lee Baucom (17:23)
It's connection.
Communication is a method of delivering something. I'm delivering information. That's all that communication does. But what is it communicating? What is a couple communicating back and forth?
The underlying problem... I said connection, but actually, the problem is disconnection.
They've lost the connection.
Let me detour just for a moment. The core problem for marriage is that they hit the pause button at some point in their marriage. The pause button they do because it's time to tackle the rest of life. They're like, 'Okay, we've got this relationship. We got the love. It'll carry us through. Now we need to parent. I need to get to this point in my career. I need to deal with whatever it is out here, but we'll get back to us.'
The 'we'll get back to us' is always rolling a little bit further into the future. Then you create the habits of disconnection.
Are they communicating? Not as much, but the reason they're not communicating is because they're disconnected.
When they're communicating, they're communicating through the pain of disconnection. We've tackled a whole nother chapter.
Jackie Morreale (18:22)
One word: connection. Or the lack thereof. My goodness.
Let's bring it back to the Book-to-Business Blueprint. What problem are you most intent on solving for authors?
Lee Baucom (18:30)
They already have the message. What they haven't figured out is how to get the message out in the world in a way that registers not just with the reader but with an audience that creates the business.
Otherwise, I don't know if 'dis- message' is a word, but like disconnection, they've got a 'dis-message'.
Jackie Morreale (18:53)
Got it. Like disconnection. You have a 'dis-message'.
How do you describe a healthy book-based business nowadays?
Lee Baucom (19:05)
First, as I've watched authors, a lot of times, they think that they have an idea. But as they carry it out, they realize it's counter to what their core message is.
It has to be true to the core message that is true to them.
It is hard to write a book that does not come from within you. It's just too much effort.
I've watched people start.
Back when I was a PhD student, kept having people come to me. They would say, 'My supervisor wants you to help me figure out what the core of my dissertation is.' I'm like, 'Why am I doing that?' It turned out that was kind of my secret little gift, to help people find what was underneath it. I would just chat with them. I would watch them.
'That doesn't seem like that really gets you going.'
They would say, 'Well, maybe I could do this.'
Finally, we would talk about it and I would watch them go, I could do this.'
That's when I would say, 'Stop, write that down, because that's going to be it.'
It's the same with authors; a lot of times, they think they know what this is about. But a lot of times, they're just trying to find the solution to the fact that they've got this book and they want to grow a business.
That's assuming they've gotten to that point of going, 'Can grow a business?' That's the first jump of going, 'I'm not just an author.' There's a business attached to that because being an author gives me authority. One of the things I love to point out is authority. First piece of it an author. You have the authority. Now, how are you going to use that to build a business? It has to be true to their message. It also has to be true to their values.
There are people who get into a business and realize this isn't who they wanted to be or how they wanted to be. That's a shame.
We have to make sure it's connected with their value. It has to match how they want to live their life. That's a big one. If they say, I want to have time for my family, and they're doing something that requires them to exchange an hourly rate. That's the book. That's fine. There a lot of people who want to do that.
They want to be doing the coaching, doing the therapy, or consulting. There are others who go, ‘I don't want to do that.’ That leans more towards, ‘Are you creating a course? Are you creating a program? Are you teaching something that's replicable?’
That's the other piece: ‘Does it fit for how they want their life to be?’ Is it matching their: message, their value, and the way they want their life to look.
(Continued below)
Jackie Morreale (10:53)
All these different pieces, your academic background, your therapist background, your business background, your author background, relationships, and you’re able to tie it all up with such a nice bow.
You have a deep, thorough understanding of complex topics. I really want to be more like you. So just putting that out there.
Lee Baucom (11:08)
You want to be more like you. The best of yourself is what you want to do.
Jackie Morreale (11:13)
A better version of me, exactly! But ‘more like you’ is a Wisdom for Wannabes theme.
You've spent two decades in the relationship and personal development space. Why authors? Why now?
Lee Baucom (11:26)
My training as a therapist is what led me to work with couples. Part of that was seeing the pain in my own extended family. Uncle and two aunts who were not successful. Watching the damage of how they left those relationships is what left me going, 'How can I help couples?' There's a passion for, 'There's got to be a better way.' Same thing with authors. I found a path, and in some ways, I stumbled along the path.
Being around authors long enough to know some stumbled along and just happened to find it. But it's a lot easier with a map. Knowing that there are messages. This is the big thing for me.
There are so many messages that need to get out there. They don't.
I remember talking with an author who said, 'I just want to have the book.' I'm like, 'What if the person who read that book was like, I need more of that? Would you be able to do something else?' The person was like, 'I guess I could.'
My response was, 'If you don’t, what a loss for your message, what a loss for that person, and what a loss for you. Everybody loses in that.’
How do we get that message into the world?
Because, gracious, the world needs more positivity and more ways of being better in the world. Let's figure that out.
People who come to me aren't the books that I go, 'I don't think we really need that message in the world.' What comes to me are people who have a message that needs to thrive in the world.
Helping do that, nurturing authors, to me, is a lot like nurturing. We need that. We need better relationships in the world for sure. We need better messaging in the world.
Jackie Morreale (12:55)
I just felt so much. I can feel the passion behind it. And I agree. There are so many important messages that need to get out there. I thank you for the work that you're doing to help people get their messages out there, because it is a mission. It is a mission to get that message out there. That message of positivity.
Lee Baucom (13:08)
It is.
Jackie Morreale (13:12)
Those authors who are writing positive messages are what you're attracting because that's what you put out there, too. Are there any similarities between the challenges that couples face and the challenges that authors face when trying to grow something meaningful?
Lee Baucom (13:24)
It's the lack of a roadmap. That is the common theme.
Where the therapy world has gotten stuck is looking at what's wrong with a couple instead of asking: 'How do we help them map a different path?' That's what I've been trying to do.
The same has been true for a lot of authors who wrote the book. What else is there to do? They don't know.
That piece is hidden, just like the relationship piece is hidden. You don't see what's happening behind the scenes. That's true for authors. They see other people who have successful businesses based on their message, and they don't know how to get there.
Whenever I've had longer conversations with people who are like, 'Well, I just wrote the book. I don't know.' I realized that part of what is behind there is something you noted earlier. There's some fear.
They don't know what to do. When we don't know what to do, we often don't do anything.
Part of the task of figuring that out is not to get stuck on the 'I don't do anything because I don't know, and there's so much coming at me.' I still don't do anything to find that place where you can just take the next action in front of you; the next thing that has to be done.
That's where we keep it, in that focus on one thing. What do you need to do this week to move this forward?
Jackie Morreale (14:32)
Is it about baby steps to get there? Baby steps that add up over time? Identifying patterns? Or is it about having the confidence to go into uncharted waters? Any of these themes that resonate in your world?
Lee Baucom (14:45)
Let's go with manageable steps. Baby steps, I think, underestimates what can be behind small steps. So manageable steps.
I was at an author event, and we were sitting down. I said, 'How's it going?' The person said, 'I get all of what that person just said. I don't even know how to start to get there.'
It wasn't a baby step that they needed to do. It was steps, manageable steps.
What the person said on stage is that you basically need to be everywhere all at once. You need to get all of your social media going. Now, he didn't say that sentence, but it was screen after screen after screen of what do you need to be doing? I could watch as I'm around people, going, 'I don't know what to do, there's too much.'
But if you have one thing, what is the one thing to do? They can check that off. It's a manageable step, meaning they can do it, but it is also significant enough that it moves the needle.
No business is built overnight.
When they throw up all of the slides on what to do, I think the intention is to overwhelm enough to get them into a big coaching program to take that apart. That still is just too much.
I also talk with a lot of authors who are at that point of going, 'I've poured my heart, soul, and money into this project. I just can't go into this huge coaching program, but I want to build something.'
That was a big piece of my motivation for how we can build something small, step by step, and get somebody there.
Jackie Morreale (16:06)
The blueprint program, while custom to each author's message, lifestyle, background, is also something that has identified a set of goals that can benefit any author to be part of?
Lee Baucom (16:19)
For me, there is a formula I created for Save the Marriage based on what I think is the underlying problem in a marriage. It happens, marriage after marriage after marriage. That piece doesn't have to be tailored to that particular marriage. How they carry it out is for them to go, 'Oh, we need to do this because of how we view things.'
But the underlying issue is the same. That's true with authors, too.
The steps we take are steps every author needs to take, but they have to figure out how they fit for their message, their audience, and what works for them.
People will say, I don't see you on some social media. I don't have time to be everywhere. I'm more focused on where I am and where people have found me than on tackling every single thing.
You don't have to tackle every single thing. You have to figure out where your people are. That's different from being everywhere all at once.
Jackie Morreale (17:12)
I'm guessing it's got to do with communication because you're really good at communicating. That the underlying problem might have something to do with communication, but that's a question for another interview.
Lee Baucom (17:20)
Actually not. You want to know it?
Jackie Morreale (17:21)
Yes, I want to know!
Lee Baucom (17:23)
It's connection.
Communication is a method of delivering something. I'm delivering information. That's all that communication does. But what is it communicating? What is a couple communicating back and forth?
The underlying problem... I said connection, but actually, the problem is disconnection.
They've lost the connection.
Let me detour just for a moment. The core problem for marriage is that they hit the pause button at some point in their marriage. The pause button they do because it's time to tackle the rest of life. They're like, 'Okay, we've got this relationship. We got the love. It'll carry us through. Now we need to parent. I need to get to this point in my career. I need to deal with whatever it is out here, but we'll get back to us.'
The 'we'll get back to us' is always rolling a little bit further into the future. Then you create the habits of disconnection.
Are they communicating? Not as much, but the reason they're not communicating is because they're disconnected.
When they're communicating, they're communicating through the pain of disconnection. We've tackled a whole nother chapter.
Jackie Morreale (18:22)
One word: connection. Or the lack thereof. My goodness.
Let's bring it back to the Book-to-Business Blueprint. What problem are you most intent on solving for authors?
Lee Baucom (18:30)
They already have the message. What they haven't figured out is how to get the message out in the world in a way that registers not just with the reader but with an audience that creates the business.
- How do you bring that message out further?
- What does that look like?
- How do you do that?
Otherwise, I don't know if 'dis- message' is a word, but like disconnection, they've got a 'dis-message'.
Jackie Morreale (18:53)
Got it. Like disconnection. You have a 'dis-message'.
How do you describe a healthy book-based business nowadays?
Lee Baucom (19:05)
First, as I've watched authors, a lot of times, they think that they have an idea. But as they carry it out, they realize it's counter to what their core message is.
It has to be true to the core message that is true to them.
It is hard to write a book that does not come from within you. It's just too much effort.
I've watched people start.
Back when I was a PhD student, kept having people come to me. They would say, 'My supervisor wants you to help me figure out what the core of my dissertation is.' I'm like, 'Why am I doing that?' It turned out that was kind of my secret little gift, to help people find what was underneath it. I would just chat with them. I would watch them.
'That doesn't seem like that really gets you going.'
They would say, 'Well, maybe I could do this.'
Finally, we would talk about it and I would watch them go, I could do this.'
That's when I would say, 'Stop, write that down, because that's going to be it.'
It's the same with authors; a lot of times, they think they know what this is about. But a lot of times, they're just trying to find the solution to the fact that they've got this book and they want to grow a business.
That's assuming they've gotten to that point of going, 'Can grow a business?' That's the first jump of going, 'I'm not just an author.' There's a business attached to that because being an author gives me authority. One of the things I love to point out is authority. First piece of it an author. You have the authority. Now, how are you going to use that to build a business? It has to be true to their message. It also has to be true to their values.
There are people who get into a business and realize this isn't who they wanted to be or how they wanted to be. That's a shame.
We have to make sure it's connected with their value. It has to match how they want to live their life. That's a big one. If they say, I want to have time for my family, and they're doing something that requires them to exchange an hourly rate. That's the book. That's fine. There a lot of people who want to do that.
They want to be doing the coaching, doing the therapy, or consulting. There are others who go, ‘I don't want to do that.’ That leans more towards, ‘Are you creating a course? Are you creating a program? Are you teaching something that's replicable?’
That's the other piece: ‘Does it fit for how they want their life to be?’ Is it matching their: message, their value, and the way they want their life to look.
(Continued below)
Check out Dr. Lee Baucom's Thrive Nation Podcast (https://thriveology.com/):
(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (21:10)
It's so interesting to think about an author as a business. I've helped market businesses of all different sizes. Authenticity is something that you have to be, no matter how big your business. Business-to-business customers or business-to-customer customers can see through it from a mile away. You have to be true to your values. You have to be authentic.
An author can think: I have some sort of credibility, so I can produce a written work. But then to take that and identify yourself as a business and how that message then permeates to the market... There are so many components to the marketing of it.
I think just the identity of an author, as in, ‘I'm an author,’ is an identity shift. Now, I'm a business. That's a huge identity shift.
You're helping people with the 'how' of how to make their dream a reality. That's what it is. You're a dream maker!
Lee Baucom (21:57)
It's already there. We're trying to unearth it.
My background as a therapist was what was leading me to write about what was already there. I was writing about relationships because I didn't like what I saw in the statistics of marriage therapy. I was like, ‘What will actually work? What makes a difference?’
Let's find what actually works.
That gave me a different piece, though. I realized, I've already got this therapy coach thing. That was my skill. I wrote a book about that.
What do people do with that book? They want more help with that. It already fit into what I did.
Most authors are at that point. It's very rare for a successful book for its author to have said, 'I'm just going to pick a topic and start writing.' They have to have some process.
What they often miss is: In the process of writing a book, you also change your own thinking process. You think about how you ‘language’ things differently. You think about the framework that you build out from there.
You have to be much more intentional. That process of identifying that framework is giving you the next step.
What is that framework you're going to share?
Many authors don't think they've created a framework until somebody points it out. It's embedded in there.
I know you wrote a book. Did it change how you thought about things as you were progressing through that, the process of writing? Did that bring it home?
Jackie Morreale (23:13)
Hold on. I'm the one asking questions here, Lee, lol. I know that you're a podcaster yourself; a therapist, podcaster, entrepreneur.
Lee Baucom (23:20)
Who's always asking questions, lol.
Jackie Morreale (23:34)
Yes, absolutely.
For me, it's only gotten easier with the second, third, and fourth books.
The first one was like a glass ceiling that I had to break through after 40 something years of thinking about it.
The amount of urgency just to break through and finally have that identity shift to be an ‘author’ was an amazing difference from one day to the next.
But in terms of building the business, I have learned you have to put yourself out there. And this is from being in marketing that's typically been behind the scenes for 20 plus years.
People want to know you as an author, and as a human. They want to see your face. If they're reading your words, if they're getting your message, they want to know that the person it's coming from is someone they would identify with. That's something I've learned.
That's hard to get past. Doing what you and I are doing, putting our face out there, having open conversations, is hard.
But the mission behind it, that I'm doing this for positive messaging, is a message that's going to live in me.
Lee Baucom (24:16)
I think fear is a good thing for us to bring in here, because that is what gets in the way.
What I noticed is that people who understand their fear are not stuck in it.
I think that our culture has made fear an avoidance thing. I call it an avoidance indicator as opposed to an importance indicator.
Whenever somebody is stuck behind their fear, whenever they can't get beyond that, they've missed the fact that that fear is only pointing to how important it is.
For instance, you just talked about having to be out there and being more visible. That fear is telling you that's really important, not that's something I don't want to do.
I'm never going to do that, but that's important. How do I step into that?
Jackie Morreale (24:56)
That's such a good take on it. My own family, we had to get over some stage fright last year. And the vocal coach we went to just put her on stage. Every week, all last year. Four recitals, many solos later, and now she's quite the little performer.
I feel we all could learn from that. It is scary to do something new. Whether it's singing on stage, going to book signings, speaking to your work, or going on a podcast. But it gets easier every time you do it.
Lee Baucom (25:24)
We don't want to be awkward. We don't want to feel insecure. And yet, the only way we do anything new is to feel insecure and be a little bit awkward.
Jackie Morreale (25:31)
Agree. And it has to stink in the beginning a little bit. Then you get better. That's part of the authenticity of it.
Lee Baucom (25:37)
It's the truth.
Jackie Morreale (25:31)
It is the truth.
Let's talk about some practical guidance for authors. How early should authors be thinking about business - before the book is written, during the writing process, or after publication?
Lee Baucom (25:37)
The earlier the better. The Chinese Proverb: The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second-best time is now. It’s the same kind of thing.
When I wrote my first book, I had no idea what I was doing. In fact, it didn't even become the book. Along the way, somebody said, 'While you're waiting to get that published, why don't you make it an eBook?'
This was in 1998. I went, 'What's an eBook?' But that's what I did.
That turned into a program. It twisted path, but I wish I had thought about it upfront. That would have been great. I would have changed how I thought through that.
After that, I got much more intentional. All the other books were written with intentionality, like having contact information, and how I could move people through a process.
One mistake authors make is believing their book will answer everything.
They make the mistake of cramming too much into a book.
A book can explain a lot of what you're pointing not so much how you're going to do it, if it's a complex thing. Many times, when authors are taking a very complex thing, the context of that is more important than the how.
The how is often the business.
They make the mistake of trying to answer all the questions, thinking that that will work.
The problem is, that often gives the reader a false sense that they have the answer. That's as far as they're going to get. Recognizing that there is more to it is intentional in how you set the book up. That's if you're planning the book or even in the midst of writing it.
After the book, you're asking the question: What have I left unsolved in this? There's generally a lot unsolved in there. That ends up being what people come for.
Jackie Morreale (27:20)
That's profound. Any thoughts on writing a book so that you have a sequel or so that you have a series? Or, in terms of what you've left ‘unsaid’, becoming a coaching business or a speaking business? Is there a routine or a blueprint, a typical way of things falling?
Lee Baucom (27:36)
I use the listening model to do mine. The listening model meant that I was reviewing the reviews.
If somebody said, 'We should have had this,' let's write that down. That's money.
In my coaching practice, it helped because I would have the same question. 'You said this in there, but I didn't see anything about this.'
I'm keeping notes.
If it's just because it's completely unique to that one situation, that's one. But if I hear it multiple times, that's the next book, or that's the next course, or that's the next whatever.
They're giving you free feedback, free coaching.
Even if they said, 'I wish you had done this,' you can take it personally and try to defend that or you can say, well, maybe I need to make that more clear.
When I was in my Thrive books, I wrote Thrive Principles. When people started saying, 'Why is this not working?'
Well, let's talk about the Immutable Laws of Living, because you're violating some of these rules, I think. Another book.
I kept getting feedback. One of the things I talked about was forgiving. People were like, 'I just can't get there.' So I wrote a book on how you forgive.
It was step by step. It gets narrower and narrower. That's often the case. When I was writing with marriage stuff, I started with what I wrote for the state of the marriage. I wanted to clarify it. People had questions. I wrote, How to Save your Marriage in Three Simple Steps to outline the three steps that were embedded in what I had originally written.
I just hadn't been clear about that. So let me bring those out. I had people coming in saying, 'I've got this affair. I don't know what to do.' Let's talk about affairs. It all fits within my frame. Another book.
That's an important thing for authors to recognize. They've created a framework.
If you break your own frame, you're going to confuse the reader because you've been talking this way. Then suddenly you're over here talking about something completely different and it doesn't fit.
I wrote the book about affairs from my whole thing that disconnection is the root of the problems. Then I kept having people say, 'I've got a helpless or a hopeless (or hurting) spouse, and there are the three H's that I used in that book, in another book on the three barriers. How do you deal with that?’
Every step that I've taken has been because somebody was stuck, but it was still pointing back to how I can help you further.
Now, what is bad is for an author to start one little piece and then go, you need to hire me to get the rest. That's not what I'm talking about. There needs to be natural progression. If somebody reads that and they go, 'I've got it. That's all I need.' Great.
You've gotten what you need. But for those who need the next step, what do I provide for that? That's how you build a business out. What is the next step for people? There are going to be people who read a book and go, yep, good, loved it, done.
There are going to be people who also go, yep, read it, didn't like it. That's the filtering function. You're also filtering out the people who would not be good matches. When somebody comes to me out of the blue and says, 'I want to hire you as a coach.' My first question is, 'Have you read my material?' It'll save you a lot of money if you disagree with me. It'll also save me the difficulty of getting there, and going, 'We're not on the same page with this. Let's get on the same page.'
Let's do a shortcut: I'll take off the first three sessions that would take me to get you up to speed by reading this. Now we have a common language. Now we have a common understanding. All of those pieces are built in because they started with a book.
And if I still fit at that point, we're going to be a good match. I've already filtered through those that don't agree, those that don't like that, or those that don't want to take action in the way I would recommend.
(Continued below)
Jackie Morreale (21:10)
It's so interesting to think about an author as a business. I've helped market businesses of all different sizes. Authenticity is something that you have to be, no matter how big your business. Business-to-business customers or business-to-customer customers can see through it from a mile away. You have to be true to your values. You have to be authentic.
An author can think: I have some sort of credibility, so I can produce a written work. But then to take that and identify yourself as a business and how that message then permeates to the market... There are so many components to the marketing of it.
I think just the identity of an author, as in, ‘I'm an author,’ is an identity shift. Now, I'm a business. That's a huge identity shift.
You're helping people with the 'how' of how to make their dream a reality. That's what it is. You're a dream maker!
Lee Baucom (21:57)
It's already there. We're trying to unearth it.
My background as a therapist was what was leading me to write about what was already there. I was writing about relationships because I didn't like what I saw in the statistics of marriage therapy. I was like, ‘What will actually work? What makes a difference?’
Let's find what actually works.
That gave me a different piece, though. I realized, I've already got this therapy coach thing. That was my skill. I wrote a book about that.
What do people do with that book? They want more help with that. It already fit into what I did.
Most authors are at that point. It's very rare for a successful book for its author to have said, 'I'm just going to pick a topic and start writing.' They have to have some process.
What they often miss is: In the process of writing a book, you also change your own thinking process. You think about how you ‘language’ things differently. You think about the framework that you build out from there.
You have to be much more intentional. That process of identifying that framework is giving you the next step.
What is that framework you're going to share?
Many authors don't think they've created a framework until somebody points it out. It's embedded in there.
I know you wrote a book. Did it change how you thought about things as you were progressing through that, the process of writing? Did that bring it home?
Jackie Morreale (23:13)
Hold on. I'm the one asking questions here, Lee, lol. I know that you're a podcaster yourself; a therapist, podcaster, entrepreneur.
Lee Baucom (23:20)
Who's always asking questions, lol.
Jackie Morreale (23:34)
Yes, absolutely.
For me, it's only gotten easier with the second, third, and fourth books.
The first one was like a glass ceiling that I had to break through after 40 something years of thinking about it.
The amount of urgency just to break through and finally have that identity shift to be an ‘author’ was an amazing difference from one day to the next.
But in terms of building the business, I have learned you have to put yourself out there. And this is from being in marketing that's typically been behind the scenes for 20 plus years.
People want to know you as an author, and as a human. They want to see your face. If they're reading your words, if they're getting your message, they want to know that the person it's coming from is someone they would identify with. That's something I've learned.
That's hard to get past. Doing what you and I are doing, putting our face out there, having open conversations, is hard.
But the mission behind it, that I'm doing this for positive messaging, is a message that's going to live in me.
Lee Baucom (24:16)
I think fear is a good thing for us to bring in here, because that is what gets in the way.
What I noticed is that people who understand their fear are not stuck in it.
I think that our culture has made fear an avoidance thing. I call it an avoidance indicator as opposed to an importance indicator.
Whenever somebody is stuck behind their fear, whenever they can't get beyond that, they've missed the fact that that fear is only pointing to how important it is.
For instance, you just talked about having to be out there and being more visible. That fear is telling you that's really important, not that's something I don't want to do.
I'm never going to do that, but that's important. How do I step into that?
Jackie Morreale (24:56)
That's such a good take on it. My own family, we had to get over some stage fright last year. And the vocal coach we went to just put her on stage. Every week, all last year. Four recitals, many solos later, and now she's quite the little performer.
I feel we all could learn from that. It is scary to do something new. Whether it's singing on stage, going to book signings, speaking to your work, or going on a podcast. But it gets easier every time you do it.
Lee Baucom (25:24)
We don't want to be awkward. We don't want to feel insecure. And yet, the only way we do anything new is to feel insecure and be a little bit awkward.
Jackie Morreale (25:31)
Agree. And it has to stink in the beginning a little bit. Then you get better. That's part of the authenticity of it.
Lee Baucom (25:37)
It's the truth.
Jackie Morreale (25:31)
It is the truth.
Let's talk about some practical guidance for authors. How early should authors be thinking about business - before the book is written, during the writing process, or after publication?
Lee Baucom (25:37)
The earlier the better. The Chinese Proverb: The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the second-best time is now. It’s the same kind of thing.
When I wrote my first book, I had no idea what I was doing. In fact, it didn't even become the book. Along the way, somebody said, 'While you're waiting to get that published, why don't you make it an eBook?'
This was in 1998. I went, 'What's an eBook?' But that's what I did.
That turned into a program. It twisted path, but I wish I had thought about it upfront. That would have been great. I would have changed how I thought through that.
After that, I got much more intentional. All the other books were written with intentionality, like having contact information, and how I could move people through a process.
One mistake authors make is believing their book will answer everything.
They make the mistake of cramming too much into a book.
A book can explain a lot of what you're pointing not so much how you're going to do it, if it's a complex thing. Many times, when authors are taking a very complex thing, the context of that is more important than the how.
The how is often the business.
They make the mistake of trying to answer all the questions, thinking that that will work.
The problem is, that often gives the reader a false sense that they have the answer. That's as far as they're going to get. Recognizing that there is more to it is intentional in how you set the book up. That's if you're planning the book or even in the midst of writing it.
After the book, you're asking the question: What have I left unsolved in this? There's generally a lot unsolved in there. That ends up being what people come for.
Jackie Morreale (27:20)
That's profound. Any thoughts on writing a book so that you have a sequel or so that you have a series? Or, in terms of what you've left ‘unsaid’, becoming a coaching business or a speaking business? Is there a routine or a blueprint, a typical way of things falling?
Lee Baucom (27:36)
I use the listening model to do mine. The listening model meant that I was reviewing the reviews.
If somebody said, 'We should have had this,' let's write that down. That's money.
In my coaching practice, it helped because I would have the same question. 'You said this in there, but I didn't see anything about this.'
I'm keeping notes.
If it's just because it's completely unique to that one situation, that's one. But if I hear it multiple times, that's the next book, or that's the next course, or that's the next whatever.
They're giving you free feedback, free coaching.
Even if they said, 'I wish you had done this,' you can take it personally and try to defend that or you can say, well, maybe I need to make that more clear.
When I was in my Thrive books, I wrote Thrive Principles. When people started saying, 'Why is this not working?'
Well, let's talk about the Immutable Laws of Living, because you're violating some of these rules, I think. Another book.
I kept getting feedback. One of the things I talked about was forgiving. People were like, 'I just can't get there.' So I wrote a book on how you forgive.
It was step by step. It gets narrower and narrower. That's often the case. When I was writing with marriage stuff, I started with what I wrote for the state of the marriage. I wanted to clarify it. People had questions. I wrote, How to Save your Marriage in Three Simple Steps to outline the three steps that were embedded in what I had originally written.
I just hadn't been clear about that. So let me bring those out. I had people coming in saying, 'I've got this affair. I don't know what to do.' Let's talk about affairs. It all fits within my frame. Another book.
That's an important thing for authors to recognize. They've created a framework.
If you break your own frame, you're going to confuse the reader because you've been talking this way. Then suddenly you're over here talking about something completely different and it doesn't fit.
I wrote the book about affairs from my whole thing that disconnection is the root of the problems. Then I kept having people say, 'I've got a helpless or a hopeless (or hurting) spouse, and there are the three H's that I used in that book, in another book on the three barriers. How do you deal with that?’
Every step that I've taken has been because somebody was stuck, but it was still pointing back to how I can help you further.
Now, what is bad is for an author to start one little piece and then go, you need to hire me to get the rest. That's not what I'm talking about. There needs to be natural progression. If somebody reads that and they go, 'I've got it. That's all I need.' Great.
You've gotten what you need. But for those who need the next step, what do I provide for that? That's how you build a business out. What is the next step for people? There are going to be people who read a book and go, yep, good, loved it, done.
There are going to be people who also go, yep, read it, didn't like it. That's the filtering function. You're also filtering out the people who would not be good matches. When somebody comes to me out of the blue and says, 'I want to hire you as a coach.' My first question is, 'Have you read my material?' It'll save you a lot of money if you disagree with me. It'll also save me the difficulty of getting there, and going, 'We're not on the same page with this. Let's get on the same page.'
Let's do a shortcut: I'll take off the first three sessions that would take me to get you up to speed by reading this. Now we have a common language. Now we have a common understanding. All of those pieces are built in because they started with a book.
And if I still fit at that point, we're going to be a good match. I've already filtered through those that don't agree, those that don't like that, or those that don't want to take action in the way I would recommend.
(Continued below)
Relationship advice from Dr. Lee Baucom (check out his YouTube channel!):
(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (30:49)
Is it really that they don't like your methods, or that they're just not ready?
Lee Baucom (30:53)
That's not different. There are a lot of reasons you might not like something. Sometimes people don't like my writing style, which is fine. I don't like some writing styles.
I've realized, as an author and being online, you've got to toughen up the skin if you're going to stay in the game because you'll get the criticism. People are happy to tell you what they don't like about you.
Jackie Morreale (31:00)
It's very easy to criticize. It's not easy to build a business, though, right?
Lee Baucom (31:12)
Yeah. My simple thing is, if that's where you're coming from, we're not a match. We filter it again. But why do people not like it? They may disagree at a fundamental level with what I say. That's sometimes the case.
A lot of times, it's that they aren't ready. They're not ready to see the system that they have in place.
I'm big on a systems approach everywhere.
Often, even with a client, I say, ‘We've got to build some systems,’ and they're like, ‘I don't have any systems.’
My response is: 'That is a system. It's just not a good one. It's not a helpful one. You're getting the results.' Every system delivers the results it's designed for.
Let's redesign that and get it to something you choose the results for. Many times, that 'don't like' is I've had people say, 'I didn't like it.'
Then I hear from them later on going, 'I now see what you were saying.' They come around. So yeah, it can be that.
It's just that at that moment in time, the ‘don't like’ is not going to be your customer, and that's fine.
There's a world of who will resonate with your message, and a world of people who won't, and that's okay.
Jackie Morreale (32:08)
Exactly. I think in business, too, the 80/20 rule is always good. That 20 % of the people are going to give you 80 % of your business. It really feels like you understand how to be not only the therapist, not only the relationship doctor, you're like a life architect for people. You create these systems and now you're doing the same thing for the publishing business, for authors. There's some sort of a word for author entrepreneurs…
Lee Baucom (32:34)
Authorpreneur.
Jackie Morreale (32:40)
Yes, it's Authorpreneur, thank you. What you’re doing is needed, and thank you.
Let's talk about alignment. Can you give an example of how an author might best achieve being aligned in their business with their messaging from their book?
Lee Baucom (32:48)
The times when I see people not aligned is they felt a need to maybe commercialize a message. They have somehow gotten on a different message. Sometimes, a publisher has a contract with you and they get to change what you said.
That's the hidden thing that a lot of people don't realize, that their edit is the one that stands, not what you wrote, but what they edited.
Sometimes that brings a misalignment.
It's rare for an author to be misaligned with the book that they wrote. What's in there, from them.
The piece that often gets in the way is they go, 'I need to do a business here.' The misalignment is with the message and the business, that they aren't following their own messaging.
A little example from the relationship stuff. I've created some tools that are 'first aid' things. When you're in the middle of a crisis, there's a first aid tool. But my approach is to look at the underlying issue. What I don't want to have happen is for somebody to use my first aid tool over and over and over and over again.
Jackie Morreale (33:44)
When they need surgery.
Lee Baucom (33:46)
Right. I've got this bleeding going on, and instead of going, 'Let's figure out why it's bleeding,' I'll just hold on to pressure, and it'll stop, and it started again.
You've got to get to what's below that. I have to be very careful that I don't allow the tool to be 'the tool'.
What you do, first aid, in order to get regulated so that you can then step in and deal with underlying issues.
If all I was doing was that tool, it would be out of alignment with what I believe, which is important, and with what I talk about over and over. That's the kind of thing that I often see.
An author starts down a path basically because they go, ‘That's a way of making it sell.’ It's not in alignment with what they actually talk about in their book. That's the dangerous one.
Jackie Morreale (34:26)
Are there any common mistakes that you see authors make when they try to monetize too quickly?
Lee Baucom (34:32)
Jumping at the first opportunity they see in there. We talked about the fact that you have to think about: How does this fit in with the lifestyle?
They jump in, going, 'I'll be coaching / consulting, something that is direct.' They realize that that ties them to that method. It's an hourly thing.
They've got to keep repeating, keep repeating. That wasn't what they intended.
There are lots of people who want to do exactly that. That's how they want to build it.
Coaches who want to fill their practice, therapists who want to fill their practice, speakers who want to fill their engagements.
I'm not saying that that's the wrong model. I'm just saying if that's not what you want to say, that's what I can do.
I can sell my time, but when what you wanted was freedom, it would be a mismatch.
There are people who are like: I'll just build a course. They spend a lot of time and energy in the course, and they realize that's not what they wanted to do. They wanted to spend time face-to-face with clients. That's the opposite side. It's got to be something that fits for how you want to live your life that matches that message that you have out there. The message and your values are generally pretty tied.
Jackie Morreale (35:33)
How does Book-to-Business Blueprint help authors move as a program that is a sustainable path forward?
Lee Baucom (35:40)
It's based on a weekly issue. One issue per week. It comes out on Monday. You have the week to do it. That's what you're doing that week, that one step. Instead of having this plethora of stuff coming at you, which may be good, but it's just too much. It's the fire hydrant. One action, but one action that builds up.
I'll have somebody who'll say, 'Well, I didn't really do this week's assignment.’
You can do two things in one week, but you want to stay on track with those. We hit on four different areas each week about how you build your authority, your platform, and your messaging.
Some different pieces are very important, but one step at a time.
That one step is for you to decide: How does that fit for your values, your message? All those pieces.
Jackie Morreale (36:23)
Wisdom for Wannabes moment: For someone listening who dreams of turning their ideas, maybe for a book, maybe for writing, for whatever kind of author entrepreneurship program, into a meaningful business: is there a mindset shift that you want them to make today?
Lee Baucom (36:40)
That it is okay to build a business, first of all. There are a lot of authors who really struggle with that.
They miss the fact that they have already done that as an author.
You've created something to sell.
I have a core belief that every business solves a problem. It's okay to be solving problems and to make money doing that. That is perfectly okay.
In fact, however you're making your money, you're solving a problem. If you're an employee, you're solving a problem. If you're a business, you're solving a problem. That's an important piece.
That book solves a problem. Let's get that all in alignment.
Jackie Morreale (37:15)
Do you think authors have guilt about the fact that their book is potentially making them money as an entrepreneur, as a business owner? Or some sort of ‘stuck’ feeling?
Lee Baucom (37:25)
It is a ‘stuck’. There are a number of stuck.
For some people, yes, it's guilt. For some people, it's not recognizing what's locked into the book, what's possible there.
For some people, along the way heard the message that the author makes their money on the book sales. They feel like they failed if it doesn't do that.
For some people, it's misunderstanding what that business transformation is.
When you're writing a book, unless you are just purely writing a book to have it out there in the world for no reason at all, which is pretty rare, there are some people who write things just for their family. That's a small group.
For everybody else, you're creating a product. You're already entering the market. It's just how you're going to enter the market; how you're going to do that.
There's an interesting moment I have with my father. He's well aware of what I do. Yet when he and I walk into a bookstore, he'll look around and go, 'I just don't know how any author ever sells any books.' I'm sitting there going, 'Dad, this is my whole world.' He's like, ‘I forgot about that.’ Those messages float around.
We're expecting a bestseller. That is not likely. It's possible. But that's okay. That doesn't have to happen to have a successful book as part of your business.
I know plenty of people who launch their businesses from one book. That's what happened with me. The others have come behind that. It certainly helps you keep developing your voice, your thoughts, and your frameworks if you keep writing.
Jackie Morreale (38:39)
Absolutely. Shall we do a quick-fire questions round, Lee? Find out about your favorite things. Let's start with your favorite food?
Lee Baucom (38:54)
If it's winter, ramen; if it's summer, tacos.
Jackie Morreale (38:57)
Favorite place to paddleboard?
Lee Baucom (38:59)
My favorite place to be is in the marshes off the coast of North Carolina. Inland Waterway runs through the marshes we go through. Every morning we're there. I paddle out to the marshes just to be there.
Jackie Morreale (39:09)
It sounds picturesque. Favorite place to scuba dive?
Lee Baucom (39:13)
Where there's water.
I have been scuba diving in the Ohio River, where visibility was about eight inches, if that. I've been scuba diving in Cozumel where visibility is 120 feet or more. Off the coast of North Carolina, you don't know what you're going to get, but it's still underwater, and there are things to see.
Jackie Morreale (39:23)
Beautiful. Favorite university?
Lee Baucom (39:31)
I went to Wake Forest. I still pull for them. I was a fourth generation to go. We have long roots there.
Jackie Morreale (39:37)
Favorite sports team?
Lee Baucom (39:38)
We have to go with that, because I don't follow pro sports at all. I play pickleball.
Jackie Morreale (39:42)
Everybody plays pickleball! Teamwork makes the dream work.
Hidden talent?
Lee Baucom (39:46)
Finding the framework that's hidden, but I'll tell you the other hidden talent that not many people know about. I was a professional magician when I was a teenager. Finally, when I got to college, I got too busy and stopped performing. I was doing hundreds of shows a year when I was 18, 19, even 20.
Jackie Morreale (40:02)
One day, when you add a third line of business to the Dr. Lee - marriage expert and book-to-business blueprint, you're just going to go to America's Got Talent and be the illusionist that wins!
Lee Baucom (40:13)
Not anymore. I was the one who started the Magic Club at my high school. That tells you what group I was with in high school. It was not the popular kids.
Jackie Morreale (40:21)
The Magic Club is awesome, by the way. I love all things Magic, D &D, it's fun. Gets people together.
Favorite book? It could be one of your own, by the way.
Lee Baucom (40:30)
Man's Search for Meaning is the one that I keep returning to. I've read it a number of times. Victor Frankl's message on the importance of meaning resonates, and knowing that it was battle-tested, to say, is important to me.
Jackie Morreale (40:43)
Favorite quote for life?
Lee Baucom (40:45)
Ray Kroc says you can either be green and growing or ripe and rotting. My thing is to be green and growing and always learning.
Jackie Morreale (40:51)
If readers walk away from Book-to-Business Blueprint program - with just one lasting takeaway, what do you hope it is?
Lee Baucom (41:01)
Your book has way more in it than you've given it credit for. How you mine that is what makes the difference between just that book sitting there and it being more important to the world.
Jackie Morreale (41:10)
You are such an inspiration, Lee. Thank you so much for sharing that, saying that, for being you. What is next for you, Dr. Lee Baucom?
Lee Baucom (41:19)
Working with authors has been so much fun. I want to grow that. But the relationships stuff is always going to be there because that's so important. I love doing what I'm doing.
Jackie Morreale (41:28)
Look forward to seeing what you do next. Thank you so much for your time today, Lee. I really appreciate it!
Lee Baucom (41:33)
Thank you.
Jackie Morreale (41:34)
Have a wonderful day.
Lee Baucom (41:35)
You, too.
To learn more about Dr. Lee Baucom, PhD, visit: eebaucom.com
To learn more about the Book-to-Business Blueprint program, visit: booktobusinessblueprint.com
To learn more about the Save the Marriage program, visit: savethemarriage.com
Jackie Morreale (30:49)
Is it really that they don't like your methods, or that they're just not ready?
Lee Baucom (30:53)
That's not different. There are a lot of reasons you might not like something. Sometimes people don't like my writing style, which is fine. I don't like some writing styles.
I've realized, as an author and being online, you've got to toughen up the skin if you're going to stay in the game because you'll get the criticism. People are happy to tell you what they don't like about you.
Jackie Morreale (31:00)
It's very easy to criticize. It's not easy to build a business, though, right?
Lee Baucom (31:12)
Yeah. My simple thing is, if that's where you're coming from, we're not a match. We filter it again. But why do people not like it? They may disagree at a fundamental level with what I say. That's sometimes the case.
A lot of times, it's that they aren't ready. They're not ready to see the system that they have in place.
I'm big on a systems approach everywhere.
Often, even with a client, I say, ‘We've got to build some systems,’ and they're like, ‘I don't have any systems.’
My response is: 'That is a system. It's just not a good one. It's not a helpful one. You're getting the results.' Every system delivers the results it's designed for.
Let's redesign that and get it to something you choose the results for. Many times, that 'don't like' is I've had people say, 'I didn't like it.'
Then I hear from them later on going, 'I now see what you were saying.' They come around. So yeah, it can be that.
It's just that at that moment in time, the ‘don't like’ is not going to be your customer, and that's fine.
There's a world of who will resonate with your message, and a world of people who won't, and that's okay.
Jackie Morreale (32:08)
Exactly. I think in business, too, the 80/20 rule is always good. That 20 % of the people are going to give you 80 % of your business. It really feels like you understand how to be not only the therapist, not only the relationship doctor, you're like a life architect for people. You create these systems and now you're doing the same thing for the publishing business, for authors. There's some sort of a word for author entrepreneurs…
Lee Baucom (32:34)
Authorpreneur.
Jackie Morreale (32:40)
Yes, it's Authorpreneur, thank you. What you’re doing is needed, and thank you.
Let's talk about alignment. Can you give an example of how an author might best achieve being aligned in their business with their messaging from their book?
Lee Baucom (32:48)
The times when I see people not aligned is they felt a need to maybe commercialize a message. They have somehow gotten on a different message. Sometimes, a publisher has a contract with you and they get to change what you said.
That's the hidden thing that a lot of people don't realize, that their edit is the one that stands, not what you wrote, but what they edited.
Sometimes that brings a misalignment.
It's rare for an author to be misaligned with the book that they wrote. What's in there, from them.
The piece that often gets in the way is they go, 'I need to do a business here.' The misalignment is with the message and the business, that they aren't following their own messaging.
A little example from the relationship stuff. I've created some tools that are 'first aid' things. When you're in the middle of a crisis, there's a first aid tool. But my approach is to look at the underlying issue. What I don't want to have happen is for somebody to use my first aid tool over and over and over and over again.
Jackie Morreale (33:44)
When they need surgery.
Lee Baucom (33:46)
Right. I've got this bleeding going on, and instead of going, 'Let's figure out why it's bleeding,' I'll just hold on to pressure, and it'll stop, and it started again.
You've got to get to what's below that. I have to be very careful that I don't allow the tool to be 'the tool'.
What you do, first aid, in order to get regulated so that you can then step in and deal with underlying issues.
If all I was doing was that tool, it would be out of alignment with what I believe, which is important, and with what I talk about over and over. That's the kind of thing that I often see.
An author starts down a path basically because they go, ‘That's a way of making it sell.’ It's not in alignment with what they actually talk about in their book. That's the dangerous one.
Jackie Morreale (34:26)
Are there any common mistakes that you see authors make when they try to monetize too quickly?
Lee Baucom (34:32)
Jumping at the first opportunity they see in there. We talked about the fact that you have to think about: How does this fit in with the lifestyle?
They jump in, going, 'I'll be coaching / consulting, something that is direct.' They realize that that ties them to that method. It's an hourly thing.
They've got to keep repeating, keep repeating. That wasn't what they intended.
There are lots of people who want to do exactly that. That's how they want to build it.
Coaches who want to fill their practice, therapists who want to fill their practice, speakers who want to fill their engagements.
I'm not saying that that's the wrong model. I'm just saying if that's not what you want to say, that's what I can do.
I can sell my time, but when what you wanted was freedom, it would be a mismatch.
There are people who are like: I'll just build a course. They spend a lot of time and energy in the course, and they realize that's not what they wanted to do. They wanted to spend time face-to-face with clients. That's the opposite side. It's got to be something that fits for how you want to live your life that matches that message that you have out there. The message and your values are generally pretty tied.
Jackie Morreale (35:33)
How does Book-to-Business Blueprint help authors move as a program that is a sustainable path forward?
Lee Baucom (35:40)
It's based on a weekly issue. One issue per week. It comes out on Monday. You have the week to do it. That's what you're doing that week, that one step. Instead of having this plethora of stuff coming at you, which may be good, but it's just too much. It's the fire hydrant. One action, but one action that builds up.
I'll have somebody who'll say, 'Well, I didn't really do this week's assignment.’
You can do two things in one week, but you want to stay on track with those. We hit on four different areas each week about how you build your authority, your platform, and your messaging.
Some different pieces are very important, but one step at a time.
That one step is for you to decide: How does that fit for your values, your message? All those pieces.
Jackie Morreale (36:23)
Wisdom for Wannabes moment: For someone listening who dreams of turning their ideas, maybe for a book, maybe for writing, for whatever kind of author entrepreneurship program, into a meaningful business: is there a mindset shift that you want them to make today?
Lee Baucom (36:40)
That it is okay to build a business, first of all. There are a lot of authors who really struggle with that.
They miss the fact that they have already done that as an author.
You've created something to sell.
I have a core belief that every business solves a problem. It's okay to be solving problems and to make money doing that. That is perfectly okay.
In fact, however you're making your money, you're solving a problem. If you're an employee, you're solving a problem. If you're a business, you're solving a problem. That's an important piece.
That book solves a problem. Let's get that all in alignment.
Jackie Morreale (37:15)
Do you think authors have guilt about the fact that their book is potentially making them money as an entrepreneur, as a business owner? Or some sort of ‘stuck’ feeling?
Lee Baucom (37:25)
It is a ‘stuck’. There are a number of stuck.
For some people, yes, it's guilt. For some people, it's not recognizing what's locked into the book, what's possible there.
For some people, along the way heard the message that the author makes their money on the book sales. They feel like they failed if it doesn't do that.
For some people, it's misunderstanding what that business transformation is.
When you're writing a book, unless you are just purely writing a book to have it out there in the world for no reason at all, which is pretty rare, there are some people who write things just for their family. That's a small group.
For everybody else, you're creating a product. You're already entering the market. It's just how you're going to enter the market; how you're going to do that.
There's an interesting moment I have with my father. He's well aware of what I do. Yet when he and I walk into a bookstore, he'll look around and go, 'I just don't know how any author ever sells any books.' I'm sitting there going, 'Dad, this is my whole world.' He's like, ‘I forgot about that.’ Those messages float around.
We're expecting a bestseller. That is not likely. It's possible. But that's okay. That doesn't have to happen to have a successful book as part of your business.
I know plenty of people who launch their businesses from one book. That's what happened with me. The others have come behind that. It certainly helps you keep developing your voice, your thoughts, and your frameworks if you keep writing.
Jackie Morreale (38:39)
Absolutely. Shall we do a quick-fire questions round, Lee? Find out about your favorite things. Let's start with your favorite food?
Lee Baucom (38:54)
If it's winter, ramen; if it's summer, tacos.
Jackie Morreale (38:57)
Favorite place to paddleboard?
Lee Baucom (38:59)
My favorite place to be is in the marshes off the coast of North Carolina. Inland Waterway runs through the marshes we go through. Every morning we're there. I paddle out to the marshes just to be there.
Jackie Morreale (39:09)
It sounds picturesque. Favorite place to scuba dive?
Lee Baucom (39:13)
Where there's water.
I have been scuba diving in the Ohio River, where visibility was about eight inches, if that. I've been scuba diving in Cozumel where visibility is 120 feet or more. Off the coast of North Carolina, you don't know what you're going to get, but it's still underwater, and there are things to see.
Jackie Morreale (39:23)
Beautiful. Favorite university?
Lee Baucom (39:31)
I went to Wake Forest. I still pull for them. I was a fourth generation to go. We have long roots there.
Jackie Morreale (39:37)
Favorite sports team?
Lee Baucom (39:38)
We have to go with that, because I don't follow pro sports at all. I play pickleball.
Jackie Morreale (39:42)
Everybody plays pickleball! Teamwork makes the dream work.
Hidden talent?
Lee Baucom (39:46)
Finding the framework that's hidden, but I'll tell you the other hidden talent that not many people know about. I was a professional magician when I was a teenager. Finally, when I got to college, I got too busy and stopped performing. I was doing hundreds of shows a year when I was 18, 19, even 20.
Jackie Morreale (40:02)
One day, when you add a third line of business to the Dr. Lee - marriage expert and book-to-business blueprint, you're just going to go to America's Got Talent and be the illusionist that wins!
Lee Baucom (40:13)
Not anymore. I was the one who started the Magic Club at my high school. That tells you what group I was with in high school. It was not the popular kids.
Jackie Morreale (40:21)
The Magic Club is awesome, by the way. I love all things Magic, D &D, it's fun. Gets people together.
Favorite book? It could be one of your own, by the way.
Lee Baucom (40:30)
Man's Search for Meaning is the one that I keep returning to. I've read it a number of times. Victor Frankl's message on the importance of meaning resonates, and knowing that it was battle-tested, to say, is important to me.
Jackie Morreale (40:43)
Favorite quote for life?
Lee Baucom (40:45)
Ray Kroc says you can either be green and growing or ripe and rotting. My thing is to be green and growing and always learning.
Jackie Morreale (40:51)
If readers walk away from Book-to-Business Blueprint program - with just one lasting takeaway, what do you hope it is?
Lee Baucom (41:01)
Your book has way more in it than you've given it credit for. How you mine that is what makes the difference between just that book sitting there and it being more important to the world.
Jackie Morreale (41:10)
You are such an inspiration, Lee. Thank you so much for sharing that, saying that, for being you. What is next for you, Dr. Lee Baucom?
Lee Baucom (41:19)
Working with authors has been so much fun. I want to grow that. But the relationships stuff is always going to be there because that's so important. I love doing what I'm doing.
Jackie Morreale (41:28)
Look forward to seeing what you do next. Thank you so much for your time today, Lee. I really appreciate it!
Lee Baucom (41:33)
Thank you.
Jackie Morreale (41:34)
Have a wonderful day.
Lee Baucom (41:35)
You, too.
To learn more about Dr. Lee Baucom, PhD, visit: eebaucom.com
To learn more about the Book-to-Business Blueprint program, visit: booktobusinessblueprint.com
To learn more about the Save the Marriage program, visit: savethemarriage.com
Books written by Dr. Lee H. Baucom, PhD:
How To Save Your Marriage In 3 Simple Steps: Even If Only YOU Want To! Oct 1, 2013
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Recovering From The Affair: Your Guide To Saving Your Marriage After Emotional or Physical Infidelity. Jun 8, 2017
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Thrive Principles: 15 Strategies For Building Your Thriving Life. March 21, 2017.
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The Thrive Journal: Your Daily Journal for Building a Thriving Life. Jul 6, 2020
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Beyond The 3 Barriers: Why Your Spouse Can’t See A Way Forward And How You Can Help. May 6, 2020
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Marriage Fail Point: Why Your Marriage Is Failing and How To Turn It Around. November 16, 2018
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The Immutable Laws of Living: The Inspirational Blueprint to Living Your Meaningful Life. April 24, 2018
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The Forgive Process: A Little Book on Forgiving and Letting Go. October 9, 2018
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Continued reading, recommended by Dr. Lee H. Baucom, PhD:
Handbook of Hope: Theory, Measures, and Applications. By C. Richard Snyder.
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Man's Search for Meaning. May 2, 2006. By Viktor E. Frankl.
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