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Featured Guest:
Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq. Partner, Falcon, Rappaport, & Berkman LLP Publish Date: November 14, 2025 In this insightful interview for 'Wisdom for Wannabes,' Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq., a distinguished employment attorney, shares her expertise on the evolving landscape of employment law. She emphasizes the importance of fostering a positive workplace culture and discusses the significant impact of the #metoo movement. Elizabeth also provides personal anecdotes from her career, highlighting the critical role of listening and understanding in legal practice. Additionally, she introduces her upcoming series, 'Employment Edge with Liz,' which aims to provide concise legal insights for both employers and employees in the post-COVID era. Listen to/watch the full podcast recording, or read the transcript below: |
Full Interview with Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq.:
"A quote from the Marvel series, Spider-Man, is something that I really try to live by: With great power comes great responsibility."
- Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq. (Wisdom for Wannabes episode 27, 11:15)
Great quotes from the interview:
(More great quotes throughout the transcript in purple below.)
- "Words matter in the workplace."
- "Flexibility is key in the post-COVID era."
- "Listening is a crucial skill in legal practice."
- "The #metoo movement changed workplace policies."
- "Creating a positive culture retains employees."
- "Legal insights prevent potential liabilities."
- "Generational differences affect workplace conduct."
- "Proactive approaches solve workplace issues."
- "Innovation drives successful workplace cultures."
(More great quotes throughout the transcript in purple below.)
Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq. is a partner at Falcon, Rappaport, & Berkman LLP
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Key Takeaways:
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Interview Transcript:
Jackie Morreale (00:00)
My name is Jackie Morreale and I am the host of Wisdom for Wannabes, a podcast that seeks to discover wise words in business, beauty, and betterment.
Today's focus is on the topic of business by way of employment law. I want to provide a very warm welcome to today's guest, Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq. Welcome, Liz. Thank you so much for joining me.
Elizabeth Schlissel (00:23)
Thank you so much for having me, Jackie. I'm excited to be here and have a discussion with you. I've been following your podcast and you're really creating wonderful content.
Jackie Morreale (00:33)
Thank you so much. Well, it takes one to know one! I'm so excited to have you, and have the pleasure of knowing you and being able to call you a friend for over 30 years now, because we're 31. So we've known each other since we were one.
You're inspiring. You're this powerhouse lawyer based out of New York. I'm so proud to be able to say that I knew you back when and you have always been inspiring and a powerhouse in everything that you do. So welcome, Liz. Thank you so much for being here.
Elizabeth Schlissel (01:04)
Thank you, Jackie.
Jackie Morreale (01:16)
I want to brag on you a little bit before we go into the questions. As a quick bio:
Elizabeth Schlissel is a partner in Falcon, Rappaport, and Berkman's Labor and Employment Law practice group, representing clients in employment litigation, investigation, regulation, and other aspects of employment law. Liz represents companies in all types of employment litigation in state and federal courts. Liz regularly represents employers in discrimination matters filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the New York State Division of Human Rights, and the New York City Commission on Human Rights. Elizabeth also advises and defends businesses in Americans with Disabilities Act lawsuits regarding premises and websites.
Liz counsels employers, management teams, and HR executives regarding compliance with federal, state, and local employment laws and regulations. She also has experience representing large healthcare networks, including hospital systems, physician groups, and hospital administrators in a full range of employment law matters. Liz also conducts internal workplace investigations.
Her fact-finding investigations help guide employers with regard to corrective action in order to minimize exposure to liability. She also regularly conducts on-site and remote video trainings, with employees and management in order to prevent harassment and discrimination and to promote appropriate responses by management in the event of workplace complaints. You do so much, Liz. My goodness, I can't wait to learn from you.
Speaking of learning, Liz is a graduate of Boston University and Hofstra University of Law and currently is in the process of launching a series of short videos with legal insights concerning employment law, which will be called "Employment Edge with Liz", coming soon. I can't wait to watch your series. I'm so excited for you.
Elizabeth Schlissel (03:03)
Thank you, Jackie. That was such a wonderful intro.
Jackie Morreale (03:07)
You have so much going on. So, let's go right into the questions. For very, very basic background, can you please share your full name, where you are from and where you currently live and work?
Elizabeth Schlissel (03:18)
My name is Elizabeth Schlissel. I am from Rockville Centre, New York. I currently work at Falcon Rapport & Berkman and I mostly work out of their Rockville Centre office. It's nice and close to home, which is really great for a working mom like myself.
Jackie Morreale (03:33)
I love it. Well, I am very familiar with Rockville Centre and I am so proud that you are a star who continues to shine in the Rockville Centre, Long Island, New York community. I tried my best to capture it, but in a few words, what do you do and what is your passion?
Elizabeth Schlissel (03:51)
I represent both employers and employees in various employment matters. When it comes to employers, I help them comply with the law, create policies that ensure that everyone in the company is treating each other respectfully. I also do trainings for the company and I draft policies, separation agreements, employment agreements. And I provide day-to-day advice to owners of companies or HR directors to help them navigate the really complex and ever-changing employment laws. Then when I represent individuals, I mostly represent executives, sometimes individuals in finance, I represent a lot of doctors, and a lot of individuals in the luxury brands industry. I help them negotiate the terms of their employment. When they're leaving, I help them negotiate the separation of their employment and help them get severance packages that will allow them to go back into the marketplace and find replacement employment.
Jackie Morreale (04:46)
Amazing. I'm sure that every one of those companies and executives that has you on their team is a very, very lucky organization or person indeed. indeed. How many years have you been doing this?
Elizabeth Schlissel (04:54)
You flatter me. I've been practicing law for 17 years. I've been in private practice for about 14 years. I started off as an Assistant District Attorney for Nassau County where I was a prosecutor doing criminal law. After that, I moved into private practice where I started doing litigation and employment work.
Jackie Morreale (05:20)
What is your favorite part of your role?
Elizabeth Schlissel (05:23)
My favorite part of my role is having an impact on people's daily lives. When I'm working with companies, when I'm helping them navigate employment situations, I'm helping them create a culture where people want to go into the office. They feel comfortable interacting with their colleagues and then they stay. That helps companies create a positive workplace culture and retain the talent that they need to have a successful company.
When I represent individuals, I have a positive impact there because when you're in transition and you're leaving a job or starting a new job It can be some of the one of the most stressful times in your life. I help them navigate that process; review the agreements, the terms, to make sure: are they getting everything they should be getting when they're joining a new company and leaving.
Jackie Morreale (06:11)
Wow. You're really able to see the big picture and create this amazing culture of positive experiences for both employees and employers. Love that. I love that you're so deep about it.
But before we go too deep into the legal industry and your experience and insights, let's talk about your favorite things. For quick-fire questions: what is your favorite movie?
Elizabeth Schlissel (06:27)
Hocus Pocus, I'll say. I am a big Halloween person. I love fall. The temperature dropped in New York and it's finally sweater weather and I'm loving it.
Jackie Morreale (06:36)
Yes! All the trees are changing. Okay, so do you have one of the witches that's your favorite? I'm curious.
Elizabeth Schlissel (06:49)
I love Bette Middler. She's hysterical.
Jackie Morreale (06:52)
Bette Middler. She's the best. Next. What is your favorite book?
Elizabeth Schlissel (06:55)
I have to admit that my favorite book and book series is the Outlander book series by Diana Gabaldon. I've read all of her books more than once.
Jackie Morreale (07:04)
Amazing. I haven't read them, but I've watched the series. The series is addictive. It's like a mental journey to Scotland, right? Centuries old fiction.
I'm so glad that you didn't say that your favorite book was a legal book, because I would have had no idea, but Outlander I'm very comfortable with! Yay.
Elizabeth Schlissel (07:12)
Yes. Historical fiction, that's my genre. I need a mental break, I like the fantasy.
Jackie Morreale (07:25)
What is your favorite place?
Elizabeth Schlissel (07:28)
Favorite place is the beach. I'm a long Island woman, there's nothing I like better than going down to the beach with my family, walking on the boardwalk, spending all day in the sun with sunscreen. I find it so soothing and meditative. Whenever I leave the beach, I feel so calm after hearing the waves crashing all day.
Jackie Morreale (07:47)
I completely agree. I love walking on the boardwalk and just hearing you describe the beach in Long Island, it is such an amazing place, agree. What is your favorite type of food?
Elizabeth Schlissel (07:48)
I have a sweet tooth and I'm a baker so all the cookies that I make with my daughter. They're so good.
Jackie Morreale (08:01)
Yes. Favorite subject in school?
Elizabeth Schlissel (08:05)
Art, I will say. Jackie, you know that well. You're an artist yourself. I loved painting and drawing. I still paint to this day. I do watercolors frequently with my seven-year-old daughter, Skylar, and she is so talented. I started with her when she was about four years old and she's really adopted the techniques and is pretty incredible.
Jackie Morreale (08:08)
Well, that's because she's got her mom's talent. I love giving kids real tools, real watercolors or real whatever you're into for art supplies, and seeing what they come up with. It's so cool that you passed that on. What is your favorite sport?
Elizabeth Schlissel (08:40)
My favorite sport is running. I was never really a sporty person growing up. Was a cheerleader, if you remember, but I love running and that really goes hand in hand with how I love going to the beach. I love walking. I love being outside. Anything that gets me vitamin D and sunshine, I'm all about.
Jackie Morreale (08:49)
Yes, I remember! Agree. I love running too.
Favorite type of music? Perhaps while you're running or making things.
Elizabeth Schlissel (09:06)
I like eclectic music, but I will say that I mostly listen to early 2000s. One of my friends sent me a really great throwback Spotify mix recently that I've been listening to when I've been running and walking the dog.
Jackie Morreale (09:20)
That's our era. Totally agree.
Elizabeth Schlissel (09:23)
Everything from Green Day, Dave Matthews Band, R &B...
Jackie Morreale (09:27)
And it's all in! Awesome. Favorite artist?
Elizabeth Schlissel (09:32)
Picasso. I love Picasso. First of all, he was so prolific. He created so much art throughout his life and he could do it all. He can paint, he could do sculpture.
One thing that people don't realize about Picasso is that he can paint incredibly realistic things, but he was so innovative that he wanted to, not just depict what the eye sees, but he wanted to paint something that evokes a feeling. That's what I love about his artwork.
When you look at the juxtaposition of the colors and his simplifications of the figures, it creates a feeling when you are running your eye across his canvases.
Jackie Morreale (10:11)
I totally agree. I love your description of him. Now I could really hear the art history minor coming out. This is something that I need to learn more about from you. What is the most interesting type of law, in your opinion?
Elizabeth Schlissel (10:23)
The most interesting type of law? I would say employment law because it impacts everyone, whether you are a business owner and you're running a company and you need to comply with the law, or you're an employee and you want to know your rights and your benefits. So anyone who has a job or owns a business or works in a business, employment law touches your life. You can't really say that about every other type of law.
Cocktail parties, people are always asking me questions. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? My company rolled out this policy. They made me sign this agreement. I'm doing this new initiative for my business. What do you think? I get a lot of questions. I'm always happy to speak to people about what's going on with their business or their employment.
(Continued below)
My name is Jackie Morreale and I am the host of Wisdom for Wannabes, a podcast that seeks to discover wise words in business, beauty, and betterment.
Today's focus is on the topic of business by way of employment law. I want to provide a very warm welcome to today's guest, Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq. Welcome, Liz. Thank you so much for joining me.
Elizabeth Schlissel (00:23)
Thank you so much for having me, Jackie. I'm excited to be here and have a discussion with you. I've been following your podcast and you're really creating wonderful content.
Jackie Morreale (00:33)
Thank you so much. Well, it takes one to know one! I'm so excited to have you, and have the pleasure of knowing you and being able to call you a friend for over 30 years now, because we're 31. So we've known each other since we were one.
You're inspiring. You're this powerhouse lawyer based out of New York. I'm so proud to be able to say that I knew you back when and you have always been inspiring and a powerhouse in everything that you do. So welcome, Liz. Thank you so much for being here.
Elizabeth Schlissel (01:04)
Thank you, Jackie.
Jackie Morreale (01:16)
I want to brag on you a little bit before we go into the questions. As a quick bio:
Elizabeth Schlissel is a partner in Falcon, Rappaport, and Berkman's Labor and Employment Law practice group, representing clients in employment litigation, investigation, regulation, and other aspects of employment law. Liz represents companies in all types of employment litigation in state and federal courts. Liz regularly represents employers in discrimination matters filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the New York State Division of Human Rights, and the New York City Commission on Human Rights. Elizabeth also advises and defends businesses in Americans with Disabilities Act lawsuits regarding premises and websites.
Liz counsels employers, management teams, and HR executives regarding compliance with federal, state, and local employment laws and regulations. She also has experience representing large healthcare networks, including hospital systems, physician groups, and hospital administrators in a full range of employment law matters. Liz also conducts internal workplace investigations.
Her fact-finding investigations help guide employers with regard to corrective action in order to minimize exposure to liability. She also regularly conducts on-site and remote video trainings, with employees and management in order to prevent harassment and discrimination and to promote appropriate responses by management in the event of workplace complaints. You do so much, Liz. My goodness, I can't wait to learn from you.
Speaking of learning, Liz is a graduate of Boston University and Hofstra University of Law and currently is in the process of launching a series of short videos with legal insights concerning employment law, which will be called "Employment Edge with Liz", coming soon. I can't wait to watch your series. I'm so excited for you.
Elizabeth Schlissel (03:03)
Thank you, Jackie. That was such a wonderful intro.
Jackie Morreale (03:07)
You have so much going on. So, let's go right into the questions. For very, very basic background, can you please share your full name, where you are from and where you currently live and work?
Elizabeth Schlissel (03:18)
My name is Elizabeth Schlissel. I am from Rockville Centre, New York. I currently work at Falcon Rapport & Berkman and I mostly work out of their Rockville Centre office. It's nice and close to home, which is really great for a working mom like myself.
Jackie Morreale (03:33)
I love it. Well, I am very familiar with Rockville Centre and I am so proud that you are a star who continues to shine in the Rockville Centre, Long Island, New York community. I tried my best to capture it, but in a few words, what do you do and what is your passion?
Elizabeth Schlissel (03:51)
I represent both employers and employees in various employment matters. When it comes to employers, I help them comply with the law, create policies that ensure that everyone in the company is treating each other respectfully. I also do trainings for the company and I draft policies, separation agreements, employment agreements. And I provide day-to-day advice to owners of companies or HR directors to help them navigate the really complex and ever-changing employment laws. Then when I represent individuals, I mostly represent executives, sometimes individuals in finance, I represent a lot of doctors, and a lot of individuals in the luxury brands industry. I help them negotiate the terms of their employment. When they're leaving, I help them negotiate the separation of their employment and help them get severance packages that will allow them to go back into the marketplace and find replacement employment.
Jackie Morreale (04:46)
Amazing. I'm sure that every one of those companies and executives that has you on their team is a very, very lucky organization or person indeed. indeed. How many years have you been doing this?
Elizabeth Schlissel (04:54)
You flatter me. I've been practicing law for 17 years. I've been in private practice for about 14 years. I started off as an Assistant District Attorney for Nassau County where I was a prosecutor doing criminal law. After that, I moved into private practice where I started doing litigation and employment work.
Jackie Morreale (05:20)
What is your favorite part of your role?
Elizabeth Schlissel (05:23)
My favorite part of my role is having an impact on people's daily lives. When I'm working with companies, when I'm helping them navigate employment situations, I'm helping them create a culture where people want to go into the office. They feel comfortable interacting with their colleagues and then they stay. That helps companies create a positive workplace culture and retain the talent that they need to have a successful company.
When I represent individuals, I have a positive impact there because when you're in transition and you're leaving a job or starting a new job It can be some of the one of the most stressful times in your life. I help them navigate that process; review the agreements, the terms, to make sure: are they getting everything they should be getting when they're joining a new company and leaving.
Jackie Morreale (06:11)
Wow. You're really able to see the big picture and create this amazing culture of positive experiences for both employees and employers. Love that. I love that you're so deep about it.
But before we go too deep into the legal industry and your experience and insights, let's talk about your favorite things. For quick-fire questions: what is your favorite movie?
Elizabeth Schlissel (06:27)
Hocus Pocus, I'll say. I am a big Halloween person. I love fall. The temperature dropped in New York and it's finally sweater weather and I'm loving it.
Jackie Morreale (06:36)
Yes! All the trees are changing. Okay, so do you have one of the witches that's your favorite? I'm curious.
Elizabeth Schlissel (06:49)
I love Bette Middler. She's hysterical.
Jackie Morreale (06:52)
Bette Middler. She's the best. Next. What is your favorite book?
Elizabeth Schlissel (06:55)
I have to admit that my favorite book and book series is the Outlander book series by Diana Gabaldon. I've read all of her books more than once.
Jackie Morreale (07:04)
Amazing. I haven't read them, but I've watched the series. The series is addictive. It's like a mental journey to Scotland, right? Centuries old fiction.
I'm so glad that you didn't say that your favorite book was a legal book, because I would have had no idea, but Outlander I'm very comfortable with! Yay.
Elizabeth Schlissel (07:12)
Yes. Historical fiction, that's my genre. I need a mental break, I like the fantasy.
Jackie Morreale (07:25)
What is your favorite place?
Elizabeth Schlissel (07:28)
Favorite place is the beach. I'm a long Island woman, there's nothing I like better than going down to the beach with my family, walking on the boardwalk, spending all day in the sun with sunscreen. I find it so soothing and meditative. Whenever I leave the beach, I feel so calm after hearing the waves crashing all day.
Jackie Morreale (07:47)
I completely agree. I love walking on the boardwalk and just hearing you describe the beach in Long Island, it is such an amazing place, agree. What is your favorite type of food?
Elizabeth Schlissel (07:48)
I have a sweet tooth and I'm a baker so all the cookies that I make with my daughter. They're so good.
Jackie Morreale (08:01)
Yes. Favorite subject in school?
Elizabeth Schlissel (08:05)
Art, I will say. Jackie, you know that well. You're an artist yourself. I loved painting and drawing. I still paint to this day. I do watercolors frequently with my seven-year-old daughter, Skylar, and she is so talented. I started with her when she was about four years old and she's really adopted the techniques and is pretty incredible.
Jackie Morreale (08:08)
Well, that's because she's got her mom's talent. I love giving kids real tools, real watercolors or real whatever you're into for art supplies, and seeing what they come up with. It's so cool that you passed that on. What is your favorite sport?
Elizabeth Schlissel (08:40)
My favorite sport is running. I was never really a sporty person growing up. Was a cheerleader, if you remember, but I love running and that really goes hand in hand with how I love going to the beach. I love walking. I love being outside. Anything that gets me vitamin D and sunshine, I'm all about.
Jackie Morreale (08:49)
Yes, I remember! Agree. I love running too.
Favorite type of music? Perhaps while you're running or making things.
Elizabeth Schlissel (09:06)
I like eclectic music, but I will say that I mostly listen to early 2000s. One of my friends sent me a really great throwback Spotify mix recently that I've been listening to when I've been running and walking the dog.
Jackie Morreale (09:20)
That's our era. Totally agree.
Elizabeth Schlissel (09:23)
Everything from Green Day, Dave Matthews Band, R &B...
Jackie Morreale (09:27)
And it's all in! Awesome. Favorite artist?
Elizabeth Schlissel (09:32)
Picasso. I love Picasso. First of all, he was so prolific. He created so much art throughout his life and he could do it all. He can paint, he could do sculpture.
One thing that people don't realize about Picasso is that he can paint incredibly realistic things, but he was so innovative that he wanted to, not just depict what the eye sees, but he wanted to paint something that evokes a feeling. That's what I love about his artwork.
When you look at the juxtaposition of the colors and his simplifications of the figures, it creates a feeling when you are running your eye across his canvases.
Jackie Morreale (10:11)
I totally agree. I love your description of him. Now I could really hear the art history minor coming out. This is something that I need to learn more about from you. What is the most interesting type of law, in your opinion?
Elizabeth Schlissel (10:23)
The most interesting type of law? I would say employment law because it impacts everyone, whether you are a business owner and you're running a company and you need to comply with the law, or you're an employee and you want to know your rights and your benefits. So anyone who has a job or owns a business or works in a business, employment law touches your life. You can't really say that about every other type of law.
Cocktail parties, people are always asking me questions. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? My company rolled out this policy. They made me sign this agreement. I'm doing this new initiative for my business. What do you think? I get a lot of questions. I'm always happy to speak to people about what's going on with their business or their employment.
(Continued below)
Elizabeth Schlissel, NY-Based Employment Lawyer:
Elizabeth Schlissel introduces the Theodore Roosevelt American Inn of Court Annual Installation Dinner in Westbury, New York (2022)
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Elizabeth Schlissel at the Business Council of Westchester's Annual Dinner (2025)
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(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (11:07)
You're amazing. You're so approachable. I love that you let people pick your brain a little bit of cocktail parties on unemployment law. You really have such a wealth of knowledge that could apply to everyone. I love that you're very open about it. Do you have a favorite quote for life?
Elizabeth Schlissel (11:12)
I'm going to steal a quote from the Marvel series, from Spider-Man. It's something that I really try to live by.
“With great power comes great responsibility”. I believe that people who are in powerful positions need to take responsibility for their actions and make sure they have a positive impact. They have a duty to do that. One of the most impactful things in my career has to do with that quote.
I know you know that I was a former prosecutor. I started off as a district attorney and talk about power. Here I am a young lawyer. I'm prosecuting individuals. I would handle over a hundred different cases at any given time. And a matter came across my desk. A young man was charged with possession of a gun.
When I started investigating the case, I found out that this young individual was from a very difficult area. He went to a high school where not a large percentage went off to college. And here he was and he excelled against the odds. He had a really challenging upbringing and he studied, got a scholarship for track and field, and he went away to college.
He came home for Christmas break and the text messages showed that at around 11 p.m., one of his friends that he knew from high school said, “You want to come out? We will come pick you up.” He got picked up in a car. He didn't know the driver or the other individuals in the car. What he also didn't know was that earlier in the day, the driver and one of the other individuals in the car had stolen that car at around three o'clock that afternoon. What he also didn't know was that there was a gun in the car. So, he gets picked up at around 10, 11 p.m., doesn't know the car's stolen, doesn't know there's an illegal gun in the car, and what happens? The car gets pulled over. Now, the other occupants of the car know it's stolen. They immediately pull over and run.
Jackie Morreale (13:16)
Wrong place, wrong time.
Elizabeth Schlissel (13:23)
In the excitement, he starts running a block and then stops and he's like, What's going on? We have all these other occupants who run and do not get arrested. We have the scholarship track star stop and doesn't run, who could have outrun everyone in that car and the police. He of course is the only person who gets arrested. I look at this case and he's charged with gun possession because in New York, if there's an illegal gun in the car and nobody claims that it's theirs, they can charge everyone with the possession. Here is someone who, against the odds, were so successful.
I looked into his alibi, I received so many letters on his behalf. I fought hard to give this individual a break because I truly believe that with great power comes great responsibility. Ultimately, we did give this individual a break, and he was very deserving of it. I remember one of my colleagues say, I've never seen someone work so hard to not prosecute a matter. You have to use your discretion. You have to know what the right situation is here. Because pursuant to the letter of the law, he was guilty. He was in a car, there was an illegal gun, he could be charged with that.
But a felony conviction would have put his life on a completely different trajectory. He would have lost his scholarship. He may have not been able to go to college. I truly believe that one of the most impactful things that I did as a prosecutor, was knowing when to prosecute hard, and when to see the human element in the matter, and give the person a break and a second chance. That has lived with me to this day, that situation.
Jackie Morreale (15:03)
Oh my gosh. I'm so impressed by you and that story. You really have such an understanding of both the law and the human side of things. I can't wait to see your "Employment Edge with Liz" series, because I'm learning from you.
I know you from back in the day, I know that you did youth court. I know that you stood up for other people. You stood up for what you believed in. You always have been this powerhouse person that you want to have in your corner. What made you go to law school? What made you decide to be a lawyer in practice? How did it all get started for you?
Elizabeth Schlissel (15:33)
For me, it's education. I love learning. I know that may sound dorky, but with the law, especially with employment law, it's constantly changing. You're constantly learning new things and analyzing new issues. It's called the practice of law because you're constantly practicing it. You're constantly honing your skills and becoming a better attorney. That's what I love doing. I love learning new things and finding new ways that I can help my clients.
Jackie Morreale (15:59)
You talked a little bit about your experience for Nassau County. What was that like to get started in the field?
Elizabeth Schlissel (16:04)
In my mind, there's no better way to start your career than in public service. I started as an Assistant District Attorney for Nassau County. You can see my badge behind me. When you leave the DA's office, they plaque it for you so you can have it.
You get such wonderful experience because you are in court, you are analyzing facts, you're doing investigations, you're interviewing witnesses, you're conducting trials - all within a very short period of time. Those skills I carry with me today. One of the things you mentioned was investigations. Now, as an employment lawyer, I'm frequently hired by companies, boards of publicly held companies.
Sometimes other law firms bring me in as an outside investigator to investigate claims such as discrimination, harassment, retaliation. I have investigated CEOs of publicly traded companies. I've investigated SEC violations, employee theft. I love tying in my investigative skills with my knowledge of employment law.
Jackie Morreale (17:10)
You really have a talent for this. The passion really comes through in everything you do. Seeking justice and fairness and understanding the law so well that you're leveling the playing field for everyone that you're investigating. Why is employment law specifically meaningful for you?
Elizabeth Schlissel (17:27)
I think that, when you are an employee, you just want to go into the workplace and feel respected and comfortable. When that doesn't happen, the company needs to respond appropriately and deal with something head on. That's what I love doing. I love working with business owners and saying, how do we make the company better? You've built this great company. How do we make it a place where everyone wants to work here? Wants to apply to work here, everyone wants to stay there, and everyone's talking about what a wonderful place it is.
Workplace culture doesn't happen in a vacuum, it doesn't just happen. There's a lot of thought and effort that goes into it. I really love working with companies to help them create the company that they are proud of.
Jackie Morreale (18:11)
It's about the culture and it's about setting a place that people want to grow in their career and stay. So, what is it like to litigate cases in state court versus federal court in New York?
Elizabeth Schlissel (18:23)
When I started off my career, being a prosecutor, that's considered state court level. The great thing about working with state court is you really get to know the bench. You are in court a lot and appearing. There are great opportunities for motion practice.
Jackie Morreale (18:38)
What is motion practice? I don't know.
Elizabeth Schlissel (18:49)
Motion practice is when you write a paper that says, Court, you should roll this way on this issue. It can streamline the issues and not everything needs to be decided at trial. Let's get some of these issues decided ahead of time on paper. Here's what prior courts have held and as you can see, it aligns with my position so you should rule in my favor. That's motion practice in layman's terms.
Federal Court: There's this great formality of it. What I love about federal court is that things move so quickly. I am a rule follower. You have this body of law called the federal rules of civil procedure and federal courts follow it to the “T” in most situations. You know what you're getting. Each judge in federal court has their own set of rules and this is how we're going to do it. If you don't do it, there will be repercussions.
I like to be able to absorb a body of law, set of rules, and apply it to my advantage. I loved art history and one of the strengths was memorizing things. In school you have to memorize dates and whatnot. Being able to hone my retention for facts and nuances and being like, well, I know this rule allows me to do this or that and use it to my client's advantage.
Jackie Morreale (19:55)
I think that it’s amazing that you're able to retain so much information, each judge being different and able to work within their courtroom no matter what. I love that that you apply that to what you're doing now. What is your most memorable or proud moment while working in your field? If you have one.
Elizabeth Schlissel (20:12)
One of my most proud moments was not too long ago. I helped save a business. I have a background starting off as a government employee. I represented a client that was getting audited by the Department of Labor. I went into the first meeting and the investigator said, this is the second violation in five years. This is it. It's going to be a willful violation.
Well, if you're a government contractor and you have a willful violation from the Department of Labor, that can really negatively impact your government contracts. It can negatively impact your ability to get bonded. Getting this willful violation would put this company out of business. We're talking about a million dollars of Government contracts that this business would lose if they get a willful violation. That also meant over a dozen employees would have to be laid off because they would lose those government contracts.
This was another situation where it's like, if you analyze facts, did my client violate what the Department of Labor said they violated? Yes. Was it a significant violation? No. Was it the second violation within two years? Yes, it was. Should they have been given a break? Yes, they should have. I realized in my first meeting with the investigator, this was not going well. They were like, you may as well leave now, close up the shop, fire all your employees.
When listening, I realized, maybe this investigator's hands are tied. Maybe he has certain marching orders. I said, Let's adjourn this meeting. Can I submit some paperwork to you for you to review and consider, and then can we have a follow up? I put in a written submission and we had a second meeting and a third meeting and a fourth conference 18 months later, of negotiating and meeting and talking to this investigator, finally, finally they gave a non-willful. It went from absolutely not, to, you convinced me that there was extenuating circumstances, things had happened internally and management changes over the last five years. They really shouldn't have been given this willful violation, and also taking a holistic approach to the matter and getting the investigator to see the impact that this would have, not just on the business, but all the employees who rely on this business for their income to support their families.
Jackie Morreale (22:25)
I love that you have not only the knowledge and understanding of how this all works, but you also have the emotional control to say, okay, we need to listen to each other. We need to take a break. And you have this patience that saved this company with 18 months of negotiations. You've achieved your goal, and the company is still thriving and all the folks that work still have their jobs and their livelihood. That's a very proud moment.
Elizabeth Schlissel (22:54)
Thank you. Yes. You mentioned something that's so important in the practice of law and in life, Jackie. It's listening. So many problems, whether it's an employment problem or, with a company or an employee, can be resolved if individuals listen better. I feel like there is this culture to listen to respond and not to actually hear the individual. That goes back to mitigating issues with employees.
Listening to your employees when they bring a complaint, and responding appropriately, whether you're a supervisor or owner. Even when you're an employee and you're receiving feedback. If someone gives you critical feedback, there's this desire to kind of shut down and not actually really hear the advice they're trying to give you.
I really think that everybody needs a training in listening skills.
Jackie Morreale (23:46)
I totally agree. I think that I could use one every single day. It's so important and hard even though it's such a simple thing to do, to listen but to really actively listen and learn from somebody. I'm trying my best to keep up with your legal lingo by the way, I'm failing miserably but I will continue to try...
Elizabeth Schlissel (24:03)
No, you're doing great, Jackie.
Jackie Morreale (24:05)
Thank you. Let's talk about "Employment Edge with Liz". I am really excited to see what legal insights on employment law that you're going to share. Tell us about the series, how you got started with "Employment Edge with Liz". What will people get from it?
Why now? Tell me more about your series. Can't wait.
Elizabeth Schlissel (24:24)
Everyone's busy. Everyone is running around. Some people have time to listen to full webinars and seminars that I get given, other people don't. I want to be able to reach all audiences. The premise of "Employment Edge with Liz" is to provide short video clips that can help employers and employees keep up to date with the ever-changing employment laws. Also, to be able to recognize situations that need to be navigated carefully.
For example, New York State recently enacted a new law that requires employees as of January of this year to provide leave for pregnant women to get prenatal care. That prenatal care leave is in addition to the mandatory sick leave laws.
Many employers want to provide their employees with all the benefits that the law requires them to provide, but it's just difficult for them to keep up with these laws. Whether you're the kind of person who likes to read articles or listen to content, I want to make sure that business owners are keeping up to date with the law. When they have employees say, I have this leave issue, yeah, I think "Employment Edge with Liz" said there is a new leave law. I should look into that to make sure that I'm providing my employees with all the rights they're entitled to.
That's a really big change, I'll say, Jackie. A few years ago, employers weren't as proactive as they are now wanting to create this great workplace culture where they're providing their employees with the maximum amount of benefits.
(Continued below)
Jackie Morreale (11:07)
You're amazing. You're so approachable. I love that you let people pick your brain a little bit of cocktail parties on unemployment law. You really have such a wealth of knowledge that could apply to everyone. I love that you're very open about it. Do you have a favorite quote for life?
Elizabeth Schlissel (11:12)
I'm going to steal a quote from the Marvel series, from Spider-Man. It's something that I really try to live by.
“With great power comes great responsibility”. I believe that people who are in powerful positions need to take responsibility for their actions and make sure they have a positive impact. They have a duty to do that. One of the most impactful things in my career has to do with that quote.
I know you know that I was a former prosecutor. I started off as a district attorney and talk about power. Here I am a young lawyer. I'm prosecuting individuals. I would handle over a hundred different cases at any given time. And a matter came across my desk. A young man was charged with possession of a gun.
When I started investigating the case, I found out that this young individual was from a very difficult area. He went to a high school where not a large percentage went off to college. And here he was and he excelled against the odds. He had a really challenging upbringing and he studied, got a scholarship for track and field, and he went away to college.
He came home for Christmas break and the text messages showed that at around 11 p.m., one of his friends that he knew from high school said, “You want to come out? We will come pick you up.” He got picked up in a car. He didn't know the driver or the other individuals in the car. What he also didn't know was that earlier in the day, the driver and one of the other individuals in the car had stolen that car at around three o'clock that afternoon. What he also didn't know was that there was a gun in the car. So, he gets picked up at around 10, 11 p.m., doesn't know the car's stolen, doesn't know there's an illegal gun in the car, and what happens? The car gets pulled over. Now, the other occupants of the car know it's stolen. They immediately pull over and run.
Jackie Morreale (13:16)
Wrong place, wrong time.
Elizabeth Schlissel (13:23)
In the excitement, he starts running a block and then stops and he's like, What's going on? We have all these other occupants who run and do not get arrested. We have the scholarship track star stop and doesn't run, who could have outrun everyone in that car and the police. He of course is the only person who gets arrested. I look at this case and he's charged with gun possession because in New York, if there's an illegal gun in the car and nobody claims that it's theirs, they can charge everyone with the possession. Here is someone who, against the odds, were so successful.
I looked into his alibi, I received so many letters on his behalf. I fought hard to give this individual a break because I truly believe that with great power comes great responsibility. Ultimately, we did give this individual a break, and he was very deserving of it. I remember one of my colleagues say, I've never seen someone work so hard to not prosecute a matter. You have to use your discretion. You have to know what the right situation is here. Because pursuant to the letter of the law, he was guilty. He was in a car, there was an illegal gun, he could be charged with that.
But a felony conviction would have put his life on a completely different trajectory. He would have lost his scholarship. He may have not been able to go to college. I truly believe that one of the most impactful things that I did as a prosecutor, was knowing when to prosecute hard, and when to see the human element in the matter, and give the person a break and a second chance. That has lived with me to this day, that situation.
Jackie Morreale (15:03)
Oh my gosh. I'm so impressed by you and that story. You really have such an understanding of both the law and the human side of things. I can't wait to see your "Employment Edge with Liz" series, because I'm learning from you.
I know you from back in the day, I know that you did youth court. I know that you stood up for other people. You stood up for what you believed in. You always have been this powerhouse person that you want to have in your corner. What made you go to law school? What made you decide to be a lawyer in practice? How did it all get started for you?
Elizabeth Schlissel (15:33)
For me, it's education. I love learning. I know that may sound dorky, but with the law, especially with employment law, it's constantly changing. You're constantly learning new things and analyzing new issues. It's called the practice of law because you're constantly practicing it. You're constantly honing your skills and becoming a better attorney. That's what I love doing. I love learning new things and finding new ways that I can help my clients.
Jackie Morreale (15:59)
You talked a little bit about your experience for Nassau County. What was that like to get started in the field?
Elizabeth Schlissel (16:04)
In my mind, there's no better way to start your career than in public service. I started as an Assistant District Attorney for Nassau County. You can see my badge behind me. When you leave the DA's office, they plaque it for you so you can have it.
You get such wonderful experience because you are in court, you are analyzing facts, you're doing investigations, you're interviewing witnesses, you're conducting trials - all within a very short period of time. Those skills I carry with me today. One of the things you mentioned was investigations. Now, as an employment lawyer, I'm frequently hired by companies, boards of publicly held companies.
Sometimes other law firms bring me in as an outside investigator to investigate claims such as discrimination, harassment, retaliation. I have investigated CEOs of publicly traded companies. I've investigated SEC violations, employee theft. I love tying in my investigative skills with my knowledge of employment law.
Jackie Morreale (17:10)
You really have a talent for this. The passion really comes through in everything you do. Seeking justice and fairness and understanding the law so well that you're leveling the playing field for everyone that you're investigating. Why is employment law specifically meaningful for you?
Elizabeth Schlissel (17:27)
I think that, when you are an employee, you just want to go into the workplace and feel respected and comfortable. When that doesn't happen, the company needs to respond appropriately and deal with something head on. That's what I love doing. I love working with business owners and saying, how do we make the company better? You've built this great company. How do we make it a place where everyone wants to work here? Wants to apply to work here, everyone wants to stay there, and everyone's talking about what a wonderful place it is.
Workplace culture doesn't happen in a vacuum, it doesn't just happen. There's a lot of thought and effort that goes into it. I really love working with companies to help them create the company that they are proud of.
Jackie Morreale (18:11)
It's about the culture and it's about setting a place that people want to grow in their career and stay. So, what is it like to litigate cases in state court versus federal court in New York?
Elizabeth Schlissel (18:23)
When I started off my career, being a prosecutor, that's considered state court level. The great thing about working with state court is you really get to know the bench. You are in court a lot and appearing. There are great opportunities for motion practice.
Jackie Morreale (18:38)
What is motion practice? I don't know.
Elizabeth Schlissel (18:49)
Motion practice is when you write a paper that says, Court, you should roll this way on this issue. It can streamline the issues and not everything needs to be decided at trial. Let's get some of these issues decided ahead of time on paper. Here's what prior courts have held and as you can see, it aligns with my position so you should rule in my favor. That's motion practice in layman's terms.
Federal Court: There's this great formality of it. What I love about federal court is that things move so quickly. I am a rule follower. You have this body of law called the federal rules of civil procedure and federal courts follow it to the “T” in most situations. You know what you're getting. Each judge in federal court has their own set of rules and this is how we're going to do it. If you don't do it, there will be repercussions.
I like to be able to absorb a body of law, set of rules, and apply it to my advantage. I loved art history and one of the strengths was memorizing things. In school you have to memorize dates and whatnot. Being able to hone my retention for facts and nuances and being like, well, I know this rule allows me to do this or that and use it to my client's advantage.
Jackie Morreale (19:55)
I think that it’s amazing that you're able to retain so much information, each judge being different and able to work within their courtroom no matter what. I love that that you apply that to what you're doing now. What is your most memorable or proud moment while working in your field? If you have one.
Elizabeth Schlissel (20:12)
One of my most proud moments was not too long ago. I helped save a business. I have a background starting off as a government employee. I represented a client that was getting audited by the Department of Labor. I went into the first meeting and the investigator said, this is the second violation in five years. This is it. It's going to be a willful violation.
Well, if you're a government contractor and you have a willful violation from the Department of Labor, that can really negatively impact your government contracts. It can negatively impact your ability to get bonded. Getting this willful violation would put this company out of business. We're talking about a million dollars of Government contracts that this business would lose if they get a willful violation. That also meant over a dozen employees would have to be laid off because they would lose those government contracts.
This was another situation where it's like, if you analyze facts, did my client violate what the Department of Labor said they violated? Yes. Was it a significant violation? No. Was it the second violation within two years? Yes, it was. Should they have been given a break? Yes, they should have. I realized in my first meeting with the investigator, this was not going well. They were like, you may as well leave now, close up the shop, fire all your employees.
When listening, I realized, maybe this investigator's hands are tied. Maybe he has certain marching orders. I said, Let's adjourn this meeting. Can I submit some paperwork to you for you to review and consider, and then can we have a follow up? I put in a written submission and we had a second meeting and a third meeting and a fourth conference 18 months later, of negotiating and meeting and talking to this investigator, finally, finally they gave a non-willful. It went from absolutely not, to, you convinced me that there was extenuating circumstances, things had happened internally and management changes over the last five years. They really shouldn't have been given this willful violation, and also taking a holistic approach to the matter and getting the investigator to see the impact that this would have, not just on the business, but all the employees who rely on this business for their income to support their families.
Jackie Morreale (22:25)
I love that you have not only the knowledge and understanding of how this all works, but you also have the emotional control to say, okay, we need to listen to each other. We need to take a break. And you have this patience that saved this company with 18 months of negotiations. You've achieved your goal, and the company is still thriving and all the folks that work still have their jobs and their livelihood. That's a very proud moment.
Elizabeth Schlissel (22:54)
Thank you. Yes. You mentioned something that's so important in the practice of law and in life, Jackie. It's listening. So many problems, whether it's an employment problem or, with a company or an employee, can be resolved if individuals listen better. I feel like there is this culture to listen to respond and not to actually hear the individual. That goes back to mitigating issues with employees.
Listening to your employees when they bring a complaint, and responding appropriately, whether you're a supervisor or owner. Even when you're an employee and you're receiving feedback. If someone gives you critical feedback, there's this desire to kind of shut down and not actually really hear the advice they're trying to give you.
I really think that everybody needs a training in listening skills.
Jackie Morreale (23:46)
I totally agree. I think that I could use one every single day. It's so important and hard even though it's such a simple thing to do, to listen but to really actively listen and learn from somebody. I'm trying my best to keep up with your legal lingo by the way, I'm failing miserably but I will continue to try...
Elizabeth Schlissel (24:03)
No, you're doing great, Jackie.
Jackie Morreale (24:05)
Thank you. Let's talk about "Employment Edge with Liz". I am really excited to see what legal insights on employment law that you're going to share. Tell us about the series, how you got started with "Employment Edge with Liz". What will people get from it?
Why now? Tell me more about your series. Can't wait.
Elizabeth Schlissel (24:24)
Everyone's busy. Everyone is running around. Some people have time to listen to full webinars and seminars that I get given, other people don't. I want to be able to reach all audiences. The premise of "Employment Edge with Liz" is to provide short video clips that can help employers and employees keep up to date with the ever-changing employment laws. Also, to be able to recognize situations that need to be navigated carefully.
For example, New York State recently enacted a new law that requires employees as of January of this year to provide leave for pregnant women to get prenatal care. That prenatal care leave is in addition to the mandatory sick leave laws.
Many employers want to provide their employees with all the benefits that the law requires them to provide, but it's just difficult for them to keep up with these laws. Whether you're the kind of person who likes to read articles or listen to content, I want to make sure that business owners are keeping up to date with the law. When they have employees say, I have this leave issue, yeah, I think "Employment Edge with Liz" said there is a new leave law. I should look into that to make sure that I'm providing my employees with all the rights they're entitled to.
That's a really big change, I'll say, Jackie. A few years ago, employers weren't as proactive as they are now wanting to create this great workplace culture where they're providing their employees with the maximum amount of benefits.
(Continued below)
Elizabeth Schlissel, Employment Lawyer and Philanthropist:
Elizabeth Schlissel at the Nassau County Bar Association’s 25th annual #WeCare Golf Outing (2021)
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Elizabeth Schlissel on the schedule to introduce the Theodore Roosevelt American Inn of Court Annual Installation Dinner in Westbury, New York (2022)
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Elizabeth Schlissel and colleagues at an International Women's Day event (2024)
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(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (26:01)
Why do you think that is, that things have changed in the past few years and employers are trying to be proactive? Just curious.
Elizabeth Schlissel (26:08)
I think it's a few things. First, the #MeToo movement had an incredible impact in eye opening for a lot of business owners. They really saw that small acts of brushing something under the rug or not addressing things head on had really terrible implications. Not just impacting negative publicity about their companies, but also the type of businesses they wanted to run.
Ever since the #MeToo movement, more and business owners come to me and say, Liz, I have this difficult situation. How do I navigate it? Because I want to handle it appropriately. I want to respond appropriately. And that's great. I love working with business owners who say, how do I navigate this complex employment issue? I recognize that there is a potential issue here, but I'm not knowledgeable enough on the law to know how to best proceed.
That's where I come in and add value to the company.
Jackie Morreale (27:04)
I love that. Do you think that returning back to the office after COVID has anything to do with how employers think about how they want to set their workplace culture and fairness for employees? Curious if that has affected any of your business and what you see in employment law.
Elizabeth Schlissel (27:21)
Absolutely. I will say that after COVID, companies took very different approaches. Some companies, especially some of the bank institutions, says we want everybody back in the office four days a week, five days a week. We want this traditional workplace atmosphere that we've had in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. There was this whole body of workers, especially the millennial generation, who are more efficient when I work remotely because I just cut out 15 hours of commuting a week. I can get that self-care and exercise that help enable me be a better employee.
There is a big push and pull between those two mentalities. I will say that if you are a business owner and you want to have a hybrid work environment or a complete remote work environment, you need to have policies that allow your employees to interact, whether you have a Slack or Teams or Jabber communication, so people are still having those collaborative meetings. The companies that are having these strict rigid policies without any real reason behind that are getting a lot of pushback.
I see in those companies a lot of disability leave requests.
It's very interesting. One of the major things that came out of COVID is employees knowing their rights and looking up and researching things that are on their own and saying, I have this medical condition that impacts my ability to come into the office five days a week. I want to work remotely two days a week or I want to continue to work remotely 100 % of the time. Now employers need to navigate incredible uptick of leave requests from workers who really want to either have a hybrid work environment or work remotely.
Jackie Morreale (29:11)
That's so interesting what you said about the leave requests. It's complicated, right? Everybody wants to be productive, and people are productive in different ways. COVID really did shift things, and the conversation is there and open, on how we work in these modern days. If I can take that one as why is this series necessary now? I would say that is absolutely a reason why "Employment Edge with Liz" is necessary, as we try to navigate this shifting life and work and how we balance everything.
Elizabeth Schlissel (29:42)
Absolutely. The amount of daily emails and calls and outreach that I get from business owners who are just trying to comply with the law and stay on top of it, it's really a big push. There's more employees voicing their rights and requesting things. At the same time, there's employers who say, I want to comply with the law. I want to respond appropriately. So I help guide employers through having cooperative and interactive dialogues with their employees. Okay, you're requesting an accommodation. What type of limitations do you have that are preventing you from doing your duties and responsibilities? How can we work together to potentially find a reasonable accommodation that will help the business meet its needs, but also satisfy any barrier or limitation you have currently in your workplace?
That can be as simple as, an ergonomic chair or a stand up desk or a change in a work schedule to allow the employee to regularly go to the doctor or maybe get physical therapy that they need.
Again, it goes back to listening.
Just because an employee says, I want this, doesn't mean that's the end of the conversation. The best thing an employer can do is have a comfortable, open discussion to hear what the employee's true needs are, so they can collaborate and hopefully find a reasonable accommodation. Ultimately, the company wants the employee to feel comfortable and happy with the workplace decision. The employee wants their needs met. Listening and collaborating to reach a resolution I find is always the best initial approach to those situations.
Jackie Morreale (31:27)
There's always some sort of common ground, right? If you're willing to listen and be flexible with each other. Any learnings from working as an employment lawyer in New York that you can share with employers and employees alike as a preview to the series?
Elizabeth Schlissel (31:43)
Words matter.
Whether it's a one-up joke or giving feedback, thinking about how you communicate with your employees can have such a major impact on your exposure liability as well as creating that culture that you want. If you allow inappropriate jokes or inappropriate slang to be said in your workplace, you're not only exposing your company to liabilities, under various human rights laws, you're also creating a culture that excludes your employees and potentially causes talent to walk out the door.
Jackie Morreale (32:21)
You started off with “words matter”, right? Words matter. When we were growing up, hearing things from my parents, like, Sticks and stones will break your bones, but words can never hurt me. It is such the opposite of what I feel now as an adult. I feel that words have such power. I totally agree with you that you have to craft them because you want to set this culture that leads to productivity and camaraderie and all the good things that we get when a company is really in momentum. You don't want toxic words to affect the rest of the environment. I think that's so smart that you're getting ahead of the game and you're giving these useful legal insights that could help people prevent this potential liability.
What take home message would you like for your audience to receive when watching your series?
Elizabeth Schlissel (33:10)
Being a business owner and managing employees is constantly evolving. What worked for you last month may not work for you this month.
Having the flexibility to change as the law changes, as cultures change, as generations expect different things, allow you to be a more successful business and a business owner. Being receptive to outside opinions, again, listening to your employees, and showing gratitude.
I talk to business owners all the time. One of the most difficult things an employee can do at the workplace is voice a workplace concern, voice a workplace complaint. If the company's initial reaction is, that can't be true, that's not going to end well. It's not going to end well for the employee and it's not going to end well for the company. Instead, when an employee sticks their neck out and says, I want to bring something to your attention, if your response is, thank you for bringing this to my attention. We at this company take this very seriously. I'm going to look into it. I may have to consult with HR or the president or the CEO, and then I'm going to follow up with you.
Then actually do it. That is a place where employees want to work.
Jackie Morreale (34:24)
So, respect is what you're showing when you show gratitude, right?
Elizabeth Schlissel (34:28)
Absolutely. Even if you disagree with everything the employee says, be receptive and show respect. We talked about listening, there is this knee jerk reaction. I'm going to make up names. An employee comes and complains about Bob Smith. I'm best friends with Bob Smith. I have barbecues at his house all the time. I couldn't imagine Bob Smith doing something like that. Your immediate, visceral reaction is not agree with this person. Rather than doing that, if you are a manager or supervisor or business owner, realize how much courage and guts it took this employee to disrupt the status quo and bring this matter to your attention. Saying, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
We want to promote a respectful workplace. I'm going to look into this and get back to you. Those phrases... how many lawsuits companies could avoid if they responded to internal complaints like that.
Jackie Morreale (35:21)
Like that, exactly. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. So simple, but so important. Who would think, show gratitude, but it goes such a long way as an employee to feel that you're appreciated where you work. Amazing advice.
Let's talk more about advice from my friend, Employment Edge with Liz. Let's hear what you have to say about starting law school. Let's go back in time: What would you say to someone just starting law words of advice to get through, to be successful in the program, based on your own experience?
Elizabeth Schlissel (36:01)
Treat law school like a full-time job.
We have in mind, oh, 40 hours a week. Well, most full-time jobs are like 40 to 50 hours a week. If you're going to go in five days a week and you're going to work eight to 10 hours a day, and maybe four of those hours are in class and maybe four of those hours are studying in a library. You're going to set yourself up for success. Manage your time and make sure that you have those eight to 10 hours in because it's a lot.
You need to block off your calendar and make sure you have that time to study. By controlling your calendar and being conscious of the time that you're in class and studying, you can also carve out personal time, self-care time, time with your friends and family, because that is very important in any high stress situation, which law school often is. Control your calendar, treat it like a job. On Saturday I have a wedding I'm going to, so I'm going to block off that for family and friends time. I'm going to use my lunch breaks to take a walk or a run, or I'm going to get up early before class and go to the gym because having that balance and getting that physical release and self-care will make you a more successful student and eventually a more successful professional. Build in that balance early on.
Jackie Morreale (37:18)
You're basically building your work skills while you're in school. Whether you go right from undergrad or you have a work break in between undergrad and law school, your advice is so spot on that you're treating it like a job. You're learning. That's your job to learn, right? But you're building your calendar and your time management skills so that you will be successful as a lawyer at the end of the day. Love it.
Elizabeth Schlissel (37:40)
Absolutely. Setting yourself up for success.
Jackie Morreale (37:42)
Yes, starting Day One. I love that you're including the mindfulness and the running and the walking and taking care of yourself, making sure that you see your family, your friends, that's all part of the package, right? That only makes you better at what you're going to do.
What would you say to a young lawyer looking to get into employment law, perhaps one who is ambitious, like someone else I know, and looking to become a partner in their law firm?
Elizabeth Schlissel (38:11)
You want to really evaluate your work when you do a final product. Often, I see young lawyers who want to submit a first draft and it's a draft. Anything that you do and put your name on in the legal profession, I like to say, imagine that it's going to be filed in court and for the rest of your career, what you put on this paper and submit, can be attributed to you, because that is absolutely the case.
With electronic filing now, Jackie, anything you put your name to you should be proud of. Thirty, forty years from now, anyone's going to be able to go on the court document and see this is your work product. Make sure that it's your best foot forward.
Jackie Morreale (38:55)
It's crazy; thinking about anything creative I've done five, 10, 15 years ago, I usually hate it. There's kind of this period where you evolve and you change and you look back and you're like, I can't believe I made that. Now as a lawyer, starting day one, anything you sign your name to, Jim Bob, Sally Jones, Esquire, from day one, 20, 30 years down the line in your career is still something that you have to be proud of.
Elizabeth Schlissel (39:21)
Correct. You want to be able to stand behind it. Now, if you're a young lawyer, there's senior associates and partners who are going to review your work before it's finalized. But when I sit down with someone and I ask them about their legal analysis and why they included this reference.
It's a decision. Why am I going to argue this and not that? Why am I going to make this angle? Stand behind your decision. Don't just do it because that's the way the sample you saw was done. That's the way you thought it should be done. You should always conduct your own legal analysis.
One of the stories I love telling young associates is, when I was starting off my career in private practice, a partner handed me a complaint. Now a complaint is the initial filing for a lawsuit. There's two ways to respond. Either submit an answer where you admit and deny the allegations, or you say, you know what court, this doesn't even belong in court, I'm going file a motion, which is a set of written papers saying, for all these reasons, this case should be dismissed outright at the beginning. I was handed a complaint and the partner told me, draft an answer, basically responding to it. I did my own legal analysis and I said, “This should be a motion. We should write a motion to dismiss and ask the court to dismiss this case right now.” My assignment wasn't to write that. When I went to the partner, I stood behind my thought process. They said, “Great, if you get the client on board, you can do it.” I spoke with the client, I explained my legal arguments, we drafted the motion, and we won. The case was dismissed.
If I had just kept my head down and done the assignment without thinking outside the box, doing my own analysis, that client would have been in litigation for months, if not years. Instead, we were able to do a successful early evaluation.
There's this fear in the workplace that just because someone is older or been doing it more years that their legal analysis must be better than yours. While that may be the case sometimes, you went to law school, you have your own brain, you can do your own legal analysis. Part of your job as a lawyer is to constantly do your own analysis and challenge what's been done before to make sure that it's what's appropriate in this situation.
Jackie Morreale (41:34)
That thing that is always said, “This is how we always did it.” To know that when you go to law school, you're getting this training of your thinking. That's a certain logic, that you're able to think critically. This is a thinking job. We're not sticking with what we always did. We're thinking about this ethically, appropriately, judiciously, right? What an amazing accomplishment at the end of the day that law school has really prepared you for this career to think and protect people and understand the law that you read in such a way that you can depend on your legal understanding. You have to respect people who've been the industry obviously who give you assignments, but if something is going to affect someone or protect someone, it's very important. I love how you describe the critical thinking process that goes into thinking about your clients.
Elizabeth Schlissel (42:26)
With great power comes great responsibility.
(Continued below)
Jackie Morreale (26:01)
Why do you think that is, that things have changed in the past few years and employers are trying to be proactive? Just curious.
Elizabeth Schlissel (26:08)
I think it's a few things. First, the #MeToo movement had an incredible impact in eye opening for a lot of business owners. They really saw that small acts of brushing something under the rug or not addressing things head on had really terrible implications. Not just impacting negative publicity about their companies, but also the type of businesses they wanted to run.
Ever since the #MeToo movement, more and business owners come to me and say, Liz, I have this difficult situation. How do I navigate it? Because I want to handle it appropriately. I want to respond appropriately. And that's great. I love working with business owners who say, how do I navigate this complex employment issue? I recognize that there is a potential issue here, but I'm not knowledgeable enough on the law to know how to best proceed.
That's where I come in and add value to the company.
Jackie Morreale (27:04)
I love that. Do you think that returning back to the office after COVID has anything to do with how employers think about how they want to set their workplace culture and fairness for employees? Curious if that has affected any of your business and what you see in employment law.
Elizabeth Schlissel (27:21)
Absolutely. I will say that after COVID, companies took very different approaches. Some companies, especially some of the bank institutions, says we want everybody back in the office four days a week, five days a week. We want this traditional workplace atmosphere that we've had in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. There was this whole body of workers, especially the millennial generation, who are more efficient when I work remotely because I just cut out 15 hours of commuting a week. I can get that self-care and exercise that help enable me be a better employee.
There is a big push and pull between those two mentalities. I will say that if you are a business owner and you want to have a hybrid work environment or a complete remote work environment, you need to have policies that allow your employees to interact, whether you have a Slack or Teams or Jabber communication, so people are still having those collaborative meetings. The companies that are having these strict rigid policies without any real reason behind that are getting a lot of pushback.
I see in those companies a lot of disability leave requests.
It's very interesting. One of the major things that came out of COVID is employees knowing their rights and looking up and researching things that are on their own and saying, I have this medical condition that impacts my ability to come into the office five days a week. I want to work remotely two days a week or I want to continue to work remotely 100 % of the time. Now employers need to navigate incredible uptick of leave requests from workers who really want to either have a hybrid work environment or work remotely.
Jackie Morreale (29:11)
That's so interesting what you said about the leave requests. It's complicated, right? Everybody wants to be productive, and people are productive in different ways. COVID really did shift things, and the conversation is there and open, on how we work in these modern days. If I can take that one as why is this series necessary now? I would say that is absolutely a reason why "Employment Edge with Liz" is necessary, as we try to navigate this shifting life and work and how we balance everything.
Elizabeth Schlissel (29:42)
Absolutely. The amount of daily emails and calls and outreach that I get from business owners who are just trying to comply with the law and stay on top of it, it's really a big push. There's more employees voicing their rights and requesting things. At the same time, there's employers who say, I want to comply with the law. I want to respond appropriately. So I help guide employers through having cooperative and interactive dialogues with their employees. Okay, you're requesting an accommodation. What type of limitations do you have that are preventing you from doing your duties and responsibilities? How can we work together to potentially find a reasonable accommodation that will help the business meet its needs, but also satisfy any barrier or limitation you have currently in your workplace?
That can be as simple as, an ergonomic chair or a stand up desk or a change in a work schedule to allow the employee to regularly go to the doctor or maybe get physical therapy that they need.
Again, it goes back to listening.
Just because an employee says, I want this, doesn't mean that's the end of the conversation. The best thing an employer can do is have a comfortable, open discussion to hear what the employee's true needs are, so they can collaborate and hopefully find a reasonable accommodation. Ultimately, the company wants the employee to feel comfortable and happy with the workplace decision. The employee wants their needs met. Listening and collaborating to reach a resolution I find is always the best initial approach to those situations.
Jackie Morreale (31:27)
There's always some sort of common ground, right? If you're willing to listen and be flexible with each other. Any learnings from working as an employment lawyer in New York that you can share with employers and employees alike as a preview to the series?
Elizabeth Schlissel (31:43)
Words matter.
Whether it's a one-up joke or giving feedback, thinking about how you communicate with your employees can have such a major impact on your exposure liability as well as creating that culture that you want. If you allow inappropriate jokes or inappropriate slang to be said in your workplace, you're not only exposing your company to liabilities, under various human rights laws, you're also creating a culture that excludes your employees and potentially causes talent to walk out the door.
Jackie Morreale (32:21)
You started off with “words matter”, right? Words matter. When we were growing up, hearing things from my parents, like, Sticks and stones will break your bones, but words can never hurt me. It is such the opposite of what I feel now as an adult. I feel that words have such power. I totally agree with you that you have to craft them because you want to set this culture that leads to productivity and camaraderie and all the good things that we get when a company is really in momentum. You don't want toxic words to affect the rest of the environment. I think that's so smart that you're getting ahead of the game and you're giving these useful legal insights that could help people prevent this potential liability.
What take home message would you like for your audience to receive when watching your series?
Elizabeth Schlissel (33:10)
Being a business owner and managing employees is constantly evolving. What worked for you last month may not work for you this month.
Having the flexibility to change as the law changes, as cultures change, as generations expect different things, allow you to be a more successful business and a business owner. Being receptive to outside opinions, again, listening to your employees, and showing gratitude.
I talk to business owners all the time. One of the most difficult things an employee can do at the workplace is voice a workplace concern, voice a workplace complaint. If the company's initial reaction is, that can't be true, that's not going to end well. It's not going to end well for the employee and it's not going to end well for the company. Instead, when an employee sticks their neck out and says, I want to bring something to your attention, if your response is, thank you for bringing this to my attention. We at this company take this very seriously. I'm going to look into it. I may have to consult with HR or the president or the CEO, and then I'm going to follow up with you.
Then actually do it. That is a place where employees want to work.
Jackie Morreale (34:24)
So, respect is what you're showing when you show gratitude, right?
Elizabeth Schlissel (34:28)
Absolutely. Even if you disagree with everything the employee says, be receptive and show respect. We talked about listening, there is this knee jerk reaction. I'm going to make up names. An employee comes and complains about Bob Smith. I'm best friends with Bob Smith. I have barbecues at his house all the time. I couldn't imagine Bob Smith doing something like that. Your immediate, visceral reaction is not agree with this person. Rather than doing that, if you are a manager or supervisor or business owner, realize how much courage and guts it took this employee to disrupt the status quo and bring this matter to your attention. Saying, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
We want to promote a respectful workplace. I'm going to look into this and get back to you. Those phrases... how many lawsuits companies could avoid if they responded to internal complaints like that.
Jackie Morreale (35:21)
Like that, exactly. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. So simple, but so important. Who would think, show gratitude, but it goes such a long way as an employee to feel that you're appreciated where you work. Amazing advice.
Let's talk more about advice from my friend, Employment Edge with Liz. Let's hear what you have to say about starting law school. Let's go back in time: What would you say to someone just starting law words of advice to get through, to be successful in the program, based on your own experience?
Elizabeth Schlissel (36:01)
Treat law school like a full-time job.
We have in mind, oh, 40 hours a week. Well, most full-time jobs are like 40 to 50 hours a week. If you're going to go in five days a week and you're going to work eight to 10 hours a day, and maybe four of those hours are in class and maybe four of those hours are studying in a library. You're going to set yourself up for success. Manage your time and make sure that you have those eight to 10 hours in because it's a lot.
You need to block off your calendar and make sure you have that time to study. By controlling your calendar and being conscious of the time that you're in class and studying, you can also carve out personal time, self-care time, time with your friends and family, because that is very important in any high stress situation, which law school often is. Control your calendar, treat it like a job. On Saturday I have a wedding I'm going to, so I'm going to block off that for family and friends time. I'm going to use my lunch breaks to take a walk or a run, or I'm going to get up early before class and go to the gym because having that balance and getting that physical release and self-care will make you a more successful student and eventually a more successful professional. Build in that balance early on.
Jackie Morreale (37:18)
You're basically building your work skills while you're in school. Whether you go right from undergrad or you have a work break in between undergrad and law school, your advice is so spot on that you're treating it like a job. You're learning. That's your job to learn, right? But you're building your calendar and your time management skills so that you will be successful as a lawyer at the end of the day. Love it.
Elizabeth Schlissel (37:40)
Absolutely. Setting yourself up for success.
Jackie Morreale (37:42)
Yes, starting Day One. I love that you're including the mindfulness and the running and the walking and taking care of yourself, making sure that you see your family, your friends, that's all part of the package, right? That only makes you better at what you're going to do.
What would you say to a young lawyer looking to get into employment law, perhaps one who is ambitious, like someone else I know, and looking to become a partner in their law firm?
Elizabeth Schlissel (38:11)
You want to really evaluate your work when you do a final product. Often, I see young lawyers who want to submit a first draft and it's a draft. Anything that you do and put your name on in the legal profession, I like to say, imagine that it's going to be filed in court and for the rest of your career, what you put on this paper and submit, can be attributed to you, because that is absolutely the case.
With electronic filing now, Jackie, anything you put your name to you should be proud of. Thirty, forty years from now, anyone's going to be able to go on the court document and see this is your work product. Make sure that it's your best foot forward.
Jackie Morreale (38:55)
It's crazy; thinking about anything creative I've done five, 10, 15 years ago, I usually hate it. There's kind of this period where you evolve and you change and you look back and you're like, I can't believe I made that. Now as a lawyer, starting day one, anything you sign your name to, Jim Bob, Sally Jones, Esquire, from day one, 20, 30 years down the line in your career is still something that you have to be proud of.
Elizabeth Schlissel (39:21)
Correct. You want to be able to stand behind it. Now, if you're a young lawyer, there's senior associates and partners who are going to review your work before it's finalized. But when I sit down with someone and I ask them about their legal analysis and why they included this reference.
It's a decision. Why am I going to argue this and not that? Why am I going to make this angle? Stand behind your decision. Don't just do it because that's the way the sample you saw was done. That's the way you thought it should be done. You should always conduct your own legal analysis.
One of the stories I love telling young associates is, when I was starting off my career in private practice, a partner handed me a complaint. Now a complaint is the initial filing for a lawsuit. There's two ways to respond. Either submit an answer where you admit and deny the allegations, or you say, you know what court, this doesn't even belong in court, I'm going file a motion, which is a set of written papers saying, for all these reasons, this case should be dismissed outright at the beginning. I was handed a complaint and the partner told me, draft an answer, basically responding to it. I did my own legal analysis and I said, “This should be a motion. We should write a motion to dismiss and ask the court to dismiss this case right now.” My assignment wasn't to write that. When I went to the partner, I stood behind my thought process. They said, “Great, if you get the client on board, you can do it.” I spoke with the client, I explained my legal arguments, we drafted the motion, and we won. The case was dismissed.
If I had just kept my head down and done the assignment without thinking outside the box, doing my own analysis, that client would have been in litigation for months, if not years. Instead, we were able to do a successful early evaluation.
There's this fear in the workplace that just because someone is older or been doing it more years that their legal analysis must be better than yours. While that may be the case sometimes, you went to law school, you have your own brain, you can do your own legal analysis. Part of your job as a lawyer is to constantly do your own analysis and challenge what's been done before to make sure that it's what's appropriate in this situation.
Jackie Morreale (41:34)
That thing that is always said, “This is how we always did it.” To know that when you go to law school, you're getting this training of your thinking. That's a certain logic, that you're able to think critically. This is a thinking job. We're not sticking with what we always did. We're thinking about this ethically, appropriately, judiciously, right? What an amazing accomplishment at the end of the day that law school has really prepared you for this career to think and protect people and understand the law that you read in such a way that you can depend on your legal understanding. You have to respect people who've been the industry obviously who give you assignments, but if something is going to affect someone or protect someone, it's very important. I love how you describe the critical thinking process that goes into thinking about your clients.
Elizabeth Schlissel (42:26)
With great power comes great responsibility.
(Continued below)
Elizabeth Schlissel is grateful for her mother, Lois Schlissel, and her hard work and perseverance in both pioneering the field of Employment Law as well as philanthropic, community-driven endeavors:
Elizabeth Schlissel and her mother, Lois Schlissel, two generation of Employment Lawyers who also give back to the community together (2022)
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Elizabeth Schlissel and her mother, Lois Schlissel, two generation of Employment Lawyers who also give back to the community together (2025)
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(Continued)
Jackie Morreale (42:28)
Spider-Man, back for more. It's so true though. When you graduate from law school, you should really get your superhero t-shirt because it's an amazing accomplishment to be able to stand up for other people.
In terms of becoming partner, what advice would you say as someone who has achieved this status in your law firm to someone who's looking to get there?
Elizabeth Schlissel (42:50)
You have to do what you love.
When you don't love what you're doing, it comes through. It just does.
Just because you've started out after law school doing one area of law doesn't mean that that's where you need to practice for the next 30 years. There's constantly opportunities to pivot and change. There's so much you can do with your legal career, whether you're going to be a partner in a law firm or go in-house at a company or other advisory role.
If you are not really invested in what you're doing, and you don't believe in your work, you're not going to be the best in your industry. If you want to stand out, if you want to make partner and you want to get to the top, you need to be the best. You need to set yourself aside from your coworkers and colleagues and the other competitors in your industry. The way you do that is when you have passion about what you're doing.
If you start off doing X, Y, and Z, but you really want to do trusts and estates, do trusts and estates. If you want to do sports law, do sports law. Don't feel like you are pigeonholed in one place just because that's where your first job is about, or your second job. I started off as prosecutor, now I'm an employment attorney. You can do a lot of different things with your law degree.
Jackie Morreale (43:59)
That's so impressive to make that pivot and know what you want to do and be passionate about it and get out there and make a difference like you're doing.
Let's talk about the people. It's been a long path to get to this point. Any shout outs to team members for their great work, or folks who helped you get to where you are today? Speaking about sharing gratitude.
Elizabeth Schlissel (44:20)
I have to do a wonderful thank you to my mother, Lois Schlissel. She has been a true inspiration for me throughout my entire legal career. She accomplished so much. She was an employment attorney as well. She's now retired. I love telling one of the stories that she tells. When she started off her career, she clerked for the Court of Appeals of New York, which the Court of Appeals is the highest court in New York State.
It was an incredible opportunity. When she first worked there, there weren't even women's bathrooms on her floor because there were no women lawyers. There were no women judges. She had to go down several floors to find a restroom because it was just all men. And the incredible breakthroughs that she did.
She's constantly thinking about ways where she can give back. Since retiring, she has stayed so active, serving on boards of nonprofits. I like to say, she's one of the busiest retired people I know; just because she retired from the field of law doesn't mean she's stopping giving back to her community and making a positive impact on people's lives.
That's truly inspirational for me. When I do my work as an employment attorney, how can I help companies be better companies? How can I help employees during some of most difficult times of their life when they are leaving or starting a new job? She's constantly dedicating her life to helping organizations and people who she believes in.
Jackie Morreale (45:48)
What an incredible human being. A pioneer in your industry and still at it. I think that she's busier now in retirement with all that legal knowledge of employment law, which just shows the passion that she has for it, just like you. I love that that's generational and that passed down, that love for employment law and for helping people in these transitions in their lives. It's so important.
Elizabeth Schlissel (46:16)
Yes.
It's one thing to get to the top. It's another thing to get to the top and turn back around and help the people behind you.
That is so important for trailblazers.
Whether you're a woman, whether you're a man, to recognize that just because you got somewhere doesn't mean you kick the ladder down. You help raise people up, mentor people, you volunteer your time where you can to help the next generation. I really do try to live by that.
Jackie Morreale (46:44)
I just felt something. That's amazing. I know that you have done that and helped so many other young lawyers on their own path.
I remember your mom working those hard hours, as a kid, being such a driven, passionate, hardworking professional. I love to see that all those values she role modeled and here you are doing the same thing for the next generation too. So, thank you, mom! Amazing human.
What are the best ways for people to follow you and get in touch with you and your firm for legal counsel?
Elizabeth Schlissel (47:19)
You can absolutely follow me on LinkedIn. One of the best ways to get in touch with me is to email me. I am very responsive. I work all different hours. Jackie, you know that if you send me an email at night, there's a good chance you'll get a response back.
Jackie Morreale (47:33)
You're incredible, unbelievable. To be so open to conversation like that.
Elizabeth Schlissel (47:40)
I’m happy to have a one-off conversation with anyone. You don't have to necessarily hire me. A lot of times people have these short 15-, 20-minute conversations. Sometimes they end up retaining me. Other times they don't. I find that just being able to add value to people and help them think through a difficult situation, it all comes back to you. I love giving my time to pick up the phone and have a conversation with someone.
If they don't hire me, they'll refer family friends or colleagues to me. Some of the best referral sources refer clients to me are people who I've just had these one-off free conversations with.
Jackie Morreale (48:17)
But they appreciate your understanding and being able to help and maybe the circumstance wasn't perfect. I love that approach and I think networking is so important. All the things that we talked about, your listening skills, your understanding, your accountability, you do all those things without even thinking about it and you're so open to people and their situations. Anybody would be lucky to have you in their court.
How would companies, other law firms, and boards of publicly traded companies work with you regarding employment investigation work that you do?
Elizabeth Schlissel (48:40)
Thank you, Jackie. Sure. Oftentimes, there's a highly sensitive matter, whether it's an employee complaint regarding sexual harassment, discrimination, hostile work environment, and the company wants to hire an outside investigator. Sometimes I'm hired by the company. Sometimes I'm hired by the board of directors, if it's a publicly traded company. I go in and I interview witnesses, employees, and then I report back and I tell them my findings.
I help them work through these challenging situations. I've investigated everything from, this person's looking at me funny, to - oh my goodness - is the CEO violating the security exchange laws. We want to find out what's happening and if corrective action needs to take place, do that. Especially after #metoo, companies are much more proactive about bringing in an outside investigator who will have a neutral analysis. One of the benefits is I don't have any alliances. While HR and your chief of people officer can absolutely do an internal investigation, there's a trust level with someone who's already inside the company.
One of the benefits of an outside investigator is I'm meeting the witnesses and the employees for the first time. I am creating a neutral opinion of these individuals. I don't have that background baggage that could potentially impact how I investigate or fact find.
Jackie Morreale (50:16)
I'm looking at that badge behind you. All of this experience that you have has led you up to this point where you can go in and be that neutral investigator and create these fact-finding missions and do the important investigative work that these companies need for you to do.
Elizabeth Schlissel (50:31)
I love the investigations because it does marry well the prior experience as a prosecutor with my knowledge of the employment law. For example, other law firms have hired me. Another law firm may represent a large company, but that law firm, if there's a potential litigation, they don't want to be conflicted out since they want to represent their clients if the client is sued. Or maybe there already is a lawsuit going on, or threatened lawsuit. They want to bring in an outside investigator so that they are showing that they are doing a prompt, thorough investigation into the allegations. I will work with that other law firm in reporting back and discussing the findings with the firm and the clients. It really does add value, not just to the client, but a litigation attorney who wants to make sure that they have all the facts and that they can defend the company if they are ever sued.
Jackie Morreale (51:22)
Do you offer workplace trainings? Perhaps for managers? It does seem like an amazing way to mitigate some of this risk. Did I use those words appropriately? I really tried.
Elizabeth Schlissel (51:26)
I do. You're great with your legal jargon today, Jackie.
Jackie Morreale (51:38)
Thank you so much. You offer these trainings and people are able to learn how t conduct themselves in the workplace before any issues arise?
Elizabeth Schlissel (51:48)
Yes. New York State and New York City actually require that all companies do annual sexual harassment prevention trainings. In addition to the legal requirements, my trainings also dig deeper about creating a respectful workplace and a culture that employees not just know how to report instances of inappropriate behavior, but that those complaints are handled appropriately and that they feel comfortable making those complaints.
It's so important for people to think about how their actions impact other people. You think, Oh, it's common sense. We talked about how words matter. It's not common sense. When I do these trainings, I often talk about the mom test. If you wouldn't say it to your mom and you wouldn't want someone saying it about your mom, you shouldn't say it to your co-worker.
People are always saying, “I feel like I can't say anything to my co-workers anymore.” Well, for example, Jackie, your hair looks beautiful today. Your hair looks great today.
Jackie Morreale (52:50)
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I tried!
Elizabeth Schlissel (52:54)
Yeah. And that compliment, would you be offended if someone said that to your mother? Would you say that comment to your mother?
Jackie Morreale (52:59)
No, and my mom's hair looks way better than mine for the record.
Elizabeth Schlissel (53:08)
Yeah, that is an example of an appropriate comment, but inflection is important.
For example, if I said you have a great hair and I said it with, and I'm going to date myself, but a Joey from Friends, you know, how you doing with like a sexual undertone, you could say the same thing and it could have a different meaning and it could hit someone differently. That could create an issue in the workplace.
I'm not saying one inappropriate comment would rise to liability, but if someone came into your workplace, Jackie, and every single day picked out a different part of your appearance to compliment you or say something, that may make you start to feel uncomfortable.
Jackie Morreale (53:42)
It's such a delicate complex dance, this communication thing. Too much, too little, inflection points. You're really able to understand such complex details. You get it! I'm so happy to learn from you. I really believe that many, many other companies should be offering this to their employees and their managers to better understand how to set those boundaries at the workplace for everyone's gain.
Elizabeth Schlissel (54:15)
Absolutely. I see it generationally, too. Each one of those different generations have different upbringings and backgrounds and cultures they were exposed to and they have their own views of what they are comfortable dealing with and not comfortable dealing with.
Creating this emotional intelligence in the workplace that more people realize that people have different litmus tests of what they feel comfortable with.
Some people, for example, want to hug their co-workers and when they say hello, other people are hands off. I'm not saying that one touch is going to create liability. Absolutely not. But if you have a co-worker who says, I'm really not a touchy-feely person, respect that.
I say that with dating too. You get one shot. If you want to ask your coworker out to it, great. But if your coworker says, oh, I'm really busy today, that does not give you a license to go up to their cubicle every single day and say, do you want to have breakfast? Do you want to have lunch? Really good dinner with me? Repeated conduct, with the rejection and the voiced rejection of it, can rise to the level to create a hostile work environment, and sexual harassment.
Doing these trainings, I like to say that a lot of employees are seventh graders. I don't say that because employees have the mental capacity of a seventh grader. It's that seventh graders just want to fit in. They want to go to middle school. They want to keep their head down. They don't want to stand out. They want to be liked, just like everyone else.
Most employees feel the same way. They just want to go to their job, do their work, and go home to their family. What they don't really want to do is have to stick their neck out and voice a complaint to their boss.
When an employee does that, that means that something is really impacting their ability to get the job done. That manager needs to be receptive and understand that it took courage and guts for that employee to go and report something.
Again, handling it appropriately is the best way for our company to not just avoid liability, but also create that positive workplace culture.
Jackie Morreale (56:14)
That's what we all want at the end of the day, right? It's so important. You said common sense isn't common sense, it's so true. I'm very thankful for lawyers like you who understand the law because that's our common ground, right? That's our common sense. Is there anything else that you want to talk about today?
Elizabeth Schlissel (56:16)
Exactly, yes!
The one thing I will say is, everyone in the workplace comes to work with their own situations, their own life. Never assume that you know what's going on with someone.
If you want to attract the best talent, I think the companies that are being flexible, being innovative, using technology to allow their employees to have flexible work schedules.
I'm seeing those companies, not just being successful in the marketplace, but also retaining the talent they need to be successful.
I really love working with companies that are open to change because the workplace environment is constantly changing.
If you want to embrace people who have lives outside of work, typical office setting that worked in the ‘80s and ‘90s, isn't working today and isn't necessarily necessary when we have all these tools that allow employees to succeed in many different environments. Certain jobs need to be in person. It's just the unfortunate reality. At least being open to that discussion.
That's what sets apart good businesses from great businesses, and businesses where they have high turnover to businesses where you have the employees who stay for 15-20 years.
Jackie Morreale (57:45)
Thank you so much for sharing. As women in business, we know it's not easy. And you make it look easy. I really appreciate you sharing this. I can't wait for “Employment Edge with Liz”. So excited. Have a wonderful day!
Elizabeth Schlissel (57:58)
Thank you so much, Jackie. It was great speaking with you today. Bye, Jackie.
To learn more about Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq. and her work at Falcon, Rappaport, & Berkman LLP, visit: frblaw.com
Jackie Morreale (42:28)
Spider-Man, back for more. It's so true though. When you graduate from law school, you should really get your superhero t-shirt because it's an amazing accomplishment to be able to stand up for other people.
In terms of becoming partner, what advice would you say as someone who has achieved this status in your law firm to someone who's looking to get there?
Elizabeth Schlissel (42:50)
You have to do what you love.
When you don't love what you're doing, it comes through. It just does.
Just because you've started out after law school doing one area of law doesn't mean that that's where you need to practice for the next 30 years. There's constantly opportunities to pivot and change. There's so much you can do with your legal career, whether you're going to be a partner in a law firm or go in-house at a company or other advisory role.
If you are not really invested in what you're doing, and you don't believe in your work, you're not going to be the best in your industry. If you want to stand out, if you want to make partner and you want to get to the top, you need to be the best. You need to set yourself aside from your coworkers and colleagues and the other competitors in your industry. The way you do that is when you have passion about what you're doing.
If you start off doing X, Y, and Z, but you really want to do trusts and estates, do trusts and estates. If you want to do sports law, do sports law. Don't feel like you are pigeonholed in one place just because that's where your first job is about, or your second job. I started off as prosecutor, now I'm an employment attorney. You can do a lot of different things with your law degree.
Jackie Morreale (43:59)
That's so impressive to make that pivot and know what you want to do and be passionate about it and get out there and make a difference like you're doing.
Let's talk about the people. It's been a long path to get to this point. Any shout outs to team members for their great work, or folks who helped you get to where you are today? Speaking about sharing gratitude.
Elizabeth Schlissel (44:20)
I have to do a wonderful thank you to my mother, Lois Schlissel. She has been a true inspiration for me throughout my entire legal career. She accomplished so much. She was an employment attorney as well. She's now retired. I love telling one of the stories that she tells. When she started off her career, she clerked for the Court of Appeals of New York, which the Court of Appeals is the highest court in New York State.
It was an incredible opportunity. When she first worked there, there weren't even women's bathrooms on her floor because there were no women lawyers. There were no women judges. She had to go down several floors to find a restroom because it was just all men. And the incredible breakthroughs that she did.
She's constantly thinking about ways where she can give back. Since retiring, she has stayed so active, serving on boards of nonprofits. I like to say, she's one of the busiest retired people I know; just because she retired from the field of law doesn't mean she's stopping giving back to her community and making a positive impact on people's lives.
That's truly inspirational for me. When I do my work as an employment attorney, how can I help companies be better companies? How can I help employees during some of most difficult times of their life when they are leaving or starting a new job? She's constantly dedicating her life to helping organizations and people who she believes in.
Jackie Morreale (45:48)
What an incredible human being. A pioneer in your industry and still at it. I think that she's busier now in retirement with all that legal knowledge of employment law, which just shows the passion that she has for it, just like you. I love that that's generational and that passed down, that love for employment law and for helping people in these transitions in their lives. It's so important.
Elizabeth Schlissel (46:16)
Yes.
It's one thing to get to the top. It's another thing to get to the top and turn back around and help the people behind you.
That is so important for trailblazers.
Whether you're a woman, whether you're a man, to recognize that just because you got somewhere doesn't mean you kick the ladder down. You help raise people up, mentor people, you volunteer your time where you can to help the next generation. I really do try to live by that.
Jackie Morreale (46:44)
I just felt something. That's amazing. I know that you have done that and helped so many other young lawyers on their own path.
I remember your mom working those hard hours, as a kid, being such a driven, passionate, hardworking professional. I love to see that all those values she role modeled and here you are doing the same thing for the next generation too. So, thank you, mom! Amazing human.
What are the best ways for people to follow you and get in touch with you and your firm for legal counsel?
Elizabeth Schlissel (47:19)
You can absolutely follow me on LinkedIn. One of the best ways to get in touch with me is to email me. I am very responsive. I work all different hours. Jackie, you know that if you send me an email at night, there's a good chance you'll get a response back.
Jackie Morreale (47:33)
You're incredible, unbelievable. To be so open to conversation like that.
Elizabeth Schlissel (47:40)
I’m happy to have a one-off conversation with anyone. You don't have to necessarily hire me. A lot of times people have these short 15-, 20-minute conversations. Sometimes they end up retaining me. Other times they don't. I find that just being able to add value to people and help them think through a difficult situation, it all comes back to you. I love giving my time to pick up the phone and have a conversation with someone.
If they don't hire me, they'll refer family friends or colleagues to me. Some of the best referral sources refer clients to me are people who I've just had these one-off free conversations with.
Jackie Morreale (48:17)
But they appreciate your understanding and being able to help and maybe the circumstance wasn't perfect. I love that approach and I think networking is so important. All the things that we talked about, your listening skills, your understanding, your accountability, you do all those things without even thinking about it and you're so open to people and their situations. Anybody would be lucky to have you in their court.
How would companies, other law firms, and boards of publicly traded companies work with you regarding employment investigation work that you do?
Elizabeth Schlissel (48:40)
Thank you, Jackie. Sure. Oftentimes, there's a highly sensitive matter, whether it's an employee complaint regarding sexual harassment, discrimination, hostile work environment, and the company wants to hire an outside investigator. Sometimes I'm hired by the company. Sometimes I'm hired by the board of directors, if it's a publicly traded company. I go in and I interview witnesses, employees, and then I report back and I tell them my findings.
I help them work through these challenging situations. I've investigated everything from, this person's looking at me funny, to - oh my goodness - is the CEO violating the security exchange laws. We want to find out what's happening and if corrective action needs to take place, do that. Especially after #metoo, companies are much more proactive about bringing in an outside investigator who will have a neutral analysis. One of the benefits is I don't have any alliances. While HR and your chief of people officer can absolutely do an internal investigation, there's a trust level with someone who's already inside the company.
One of the benefits of an outside investigator is I'm meeting the witnesses and the employees for the first time. I am creating a neutral opinion of these individuals. I don't have that background baggage that could potentially impact how I investigate or fact find.
Jackie Morreale (50:16)
I'm looking at that badge behind you. All of this experience that you have has led you up to this point where you can go in and be that neutral investigator and create these fact-finding missions and do the important investigative work that these companies need for you to do.
Elizabeth Schlissel (50:31)
I love the investigations because it does marry well the prior experience as a prosecutor with my knowledge of the employment law. For example, other law firms have hired me. Another law firm may represent a large company, but that law firm, if there's a potential litigation, they don't want to be conflicted out since they want to represent their clients if the client is sued. Or maybe there already is a lawsuit going on, or threatened lawsuit. They want to bring in an outside investigator so that they are showing that they are doing a prompt, thorough investigation into the allegations. I will work with that other law firm in reporting back and discussing the findings with the firm and the clients. It really does add value, not just to the client, but a litigation attorney who wants to make sure that they have all the facts and that they can defend the company if they are ever sued.
Jackie Morreale (51:22)
Do you offer workplace trainings? Perhaps for managers? It does seem like an amazing way to mitigate some of this risk. Did I use those words appropriately? I really tried.
Elizabeth Schlissel (51:26)
I do. You're great with your legal jargon today, Jackie.
Jackie Morreale (51:38)
Thank you so much. You offer these trainings and people are able to learn how t conduct themselves in the workplace before any issues arise?
Elizabeth Schlissel (51:48)
Yes. New York State and New York City actually require that all companies do annual sexual harassment prevention trainings. In addition to the legal requirements, my trainings also dig deeper about creating a respectful workplace and a culture that employees not just know how to report instances of inappropriate behavior, but that those complaints are handled appropriately and that they feel comfortable making those complaints.
It's so important for people to think about how their actions impact other people. You think, Oh, it's common sense. We talked about how words matter. It's not common sense. When I do these trainings, I often talk about the mom test. If you wouldn't say it to your mom and you wouldn't want someone saying it about your mom, you shouldn't say it to your co-worker.
People are always saying, “I feel like I can't say anything to my co-workers anymore.” Well, for example, Jackie, your hair looks beautiful today. Your hair looks great today.
Jackie Morreale (52:50)
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I tried!
Elizabeth Schlissel (52:54)
Yeah. And that compliment, would you be offended if someone said that to your mother? Would you say that comment to your mother?
Jackie Morreale (52:59)
No, and my mom's hair looks way better than mine for the record.
Elizabeth Schlissel (53:08)
Yeah, that is an example of an appropriate comment, but inflection is important.
For example, if I said you have a great hair and I said it with, and I'm going to date myself, but a Joey from Friends, you know, how you doing with like a sexual undertone, you could say the same thing and it could have a different meaning and it could hit someone differently. That could create an issue in the workplace.
I'm not saying one inappropriate comment would rise to liability, but if someone came into your workplace, Jackie, and every single day picked out a different part of your appearance to compliment you or say something, that may make you start to feel uncomfortable.
Jackie Morreale (53:42)
It's such a delicate complex dance, this communication thing. Too much, too little, inflection points. You're really able to understand such complex details. You get it! I'm so happy to learn from you. I really believe that many, many other companies should be offering this to their employees and their managers to better understand how to set those boundaries at the workplace for everyone's gain.
Elizabeth Schlissel (54:15)
Absolutely. I see it generationally, too. Each one of those different generations have different upbringings and backgrounds and cultures they were exposed to and they have their own views of what they are comfortable dealing with and not comfortable dealing with.
Creating this emotional intelligence in the workplace that more people realize that people have different litmus tests of what they feel comfortable with.
Some people, for example, want to hug their co-workers and when they say hello, other people are hands off. I'm not saying that one touch is going to create liability. Absolutely not. But if you have a co-worker who says, I'm really not a touchy-feely person, respect that.
I say that with dating too. You get one shot. If you want to ask your coworker out to it, great. But if your coworker says, oh, I'm really busy today, that does not give you a license to go up to their cubicle every single day and say, do you want to have breakfast? Do you want to have lunch? Really good dinner with me? Repeated conduct, with the rejection and the voiced rejection of it, can rise to the level to create a hostile work environment, and sexual harassment.
Doing these trainings, I like to say that a lot of employees are seventh graders. I don't say that because employees have the mental capacity of a seventh grader. It's that seventh graders just want to fit in. They want to go to middle school. They want to keep their head down. They don't want to stand out. They want to be liked, just like everyone else.
Most employees feel the same way. They just want to go to their job, do their work, and go home to their family. What they don't really want to do is have to stick their neck out and voice a complaint to their boss.
When an employee does that, that means that something is really impacting their ability to get the job done. That manager needs to be receptive and understand that it took courage and guts for that employee to go and report something.
Again, handling it appropriately is the best way for our company to not just avoid liability, but also create that positive workplace culture.
Jackie Morreale (56:14)
That's what we all want at the end of the day, right? It's so important. You said common sense isn't common sense, it's so true. I'm very thankful for lawyers like you who understand the law because that's our common ground, right? That's our common sense. Is there anything else that you want to talk about today?
Elizabeth Schlissel (56:16)
Exactly, yes!
The one thing I will say is, everyone in the workplace comes to work with their own situations, their own life. Never assume that you know what's going on with someone.
If you want to attract the best talent, I think the companies that are being flexible, being innovative, using technology to allow their employees to have flexible work schedules.
I'm seeing those companies, not just being successful in the marketplace, but also retaining the talent they need to be successful.
I really love working with companies that are open to change because the workplace environment is constantly changing.
If you want to embrace people who have lives outside of work, typical office setting that worked in the ‘80s and ‘90s, isn't working today and isn't necessarily necessary when we have all these tools that allow employees to succeed in many different environments. Certain jobs need to be in person. It's just the unfortunate reality. At least being open to that discussion.
That's what sets apart good businesses from great businesses, and businesses where they have high turnover to businesses where you have the employees who stay for 15-20 years.
Jackie Morreale (57:45)
Thank you so much for sharing. As women in business, we know it's not easy. And you make it look easy. I really appreciate you sharing this. I can't wait for “Employment Edge with Liz”. So excited. Have a wonderful day!
Elizabeth Schlissel (57:58)
Thank you so much, Jackie. It was great speaking with you today. Bye, Jackie.
To learn more about Elizabeth Schlissel, Esq. and her work at Falcon, Rappaport, & Berkman LLP, visit: frblaw.com
Check out the first episode of Employment Edge with Liz, launched November 18, 2025!
Continued reading, recommended by Elizabeth Schlissel:
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